22 September 2010
16:4271989#1
I am informed that the above vessel is awaiting scrapping in Middleborough. Does anyone rmember it - even I don't !- How about saving it to be a Hotel/ restaurant/casino in the docks!!!!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
22 September 2010
17:3771992#2
David H
Great idea are you going to ask for a whip round cos I don't mind throwing a little cash in the pot.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
22 September 2010
18:3771999#3
A great idea David H, and one I`ve suggested before on here, possibly for the Western docks. Could also double up as a maritime museum, to show how busy our port was at one time, which included much freight.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
22 September 2010
20:4172024#4
Is this the one ?
http://ronfisher2.fotopic.net/p63635581.html
Would look good in Wellington Dock
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
22 September 2010
20:4572025#5
Here is a modern view - a couple of pages...
http://www.hhvferry.com/ne_1_2.htmlBeen nice knowing you :)
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
22 September 2010
23:2872072#6
No commercial operator would give it a second look. And DHB would charge it an arm and a leg for mooring. These nostalgic ship projects look oh so romantic but they always end up as white elephants. Give it a swerve and let it be quietly scrapped. R.I.P. and let's remember it as it was through the photographs.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
23 September 2010
08:2172084#7
You are right on this Peter as I know with the mega bucks required to keep steam locomotive`s running on the network. It is a shame though to see any ferries which have run from Dover going to the scrapyard, and maybe this one especially as it`s named after our town. I`d still go along with David H`s idea though to have some sort of vessel on display here. Maybe it could recieve charity status, and recover some of the cost`s that DHB may charge for mooring`s etc? Moored outside Cullins yard maybe, without the costly conversion of altering all the original feature`s for a restaurant?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
23 September 2010
10:2572101#8
Now if someone knows of a working square-rigger with a Dover connection, that might be a possibility for a maritime heritage tourist attraction? Knackered ferries really don't have the same feel, do they?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 705- Registered: 23 Sep 2010
- Posts: 661
23 September 2010
11:1972102#9
Hi everyone- I am with the Remembrance Line at Folkestone and I have been set the task of looking to help promote an operational classic ship. The last remaining feasible steam turbine vessel that could fulfill that roll is the TS Dover,now that we seem set to lose TS Manxman. Here is a ship that could put some style back into cross channel travel. Alright she's a car ferry-but what a beauty. A whopping great premium could be charged to make sure that she payed for her keep.
Being the only one left in the world -this is entirely possible.
Yes it costs a fortune to keep main line steam locomotives running on the national and preserved networks-but there are shed loads of them. One ship of one type could concentrate enthusiasm,resorces and and finance.A recession is always the right kind of climate for launching this kind of project-folks wish to escape from the doldrums-and emerse themselves. There are no other fully operational coastal turbine steamers-she would attract world wide interest...and how well she would fit into the scenario of a 'People's Community Port'-she would be universally venerated.
My vision is to secure her from scrapping as soon as possible.Then carry out a complete survey to assess the condition of her hull and machinery. This will give an indication of the work required to restore her to working order... and there will be much very expensive work as well as Solas etc etc.! Based on the figures that I've seen for Manxman I would estimate £12-13million -retail that is with a little good will thrown in.
Then we have some choices:-
A) Either we get the hull sorted ,have her towed back to Dover(Granville Dock great idea),get her repainted and use her as her own sales tool to raise the money for her restoration, on a piecemeal basis.Could be a 10 year project.
B) Investigate the idea of going directly for sponsorship with whoever is going to handle the business of the soon to be shut down North Eastern Regeneration Agency. Swan Hunter the builders(a shadow of their former selves) still exist on the Tyne and empty dry docks abound-some of them owned by the regeneration agency. If the money materialised all the work could be done where the main skill base still exists. It would be really something if she could steam into Dover Harbour.Could be a 4 year project.
As for funding(we'll need to set up a charitable trust)-well there's the much awaited 'BIG SOCIETY'(keep up the pressure Charlie!),Lottery funding (the Olympic Madness is almost over),English Heritage who will hopefully be looking after the business of the demising Heritage Shipping Register people and international donations could be lucrative.Then of course there's the local population. It's a case of relentless promotion and publicity-but with hard work it can be done.
As for operating her -she could be seasonal on all the continental channel ports.As already mentioned premium rates could be charged on fares-people would queue up for the priviledge. Don't forget in a few years the rarity value would have multiplied in the extreme.She could even return to her haunts on the Irish sea crossing to earn cash when required. I firmly believe that stuffing and mounting her is not the way forward-let's use our imagination.
I have already addressed one important issue...is she available?
Well I'm happy to say that TS Dover is up for grabs,if somebody wants her-and we do don't we?
I have recently spoken to the Business Development Director of ABLE UK who own her.He told me that they would be willing to embark upon a 'mutually beneficial' course of action which would enable an appropriate body to acquire the vessel. In fact he invited me and associates (currently unknown) to visit the ship and see for ourselves the onerous yet inspiring task which lies ahead. Who wants to come? She is currently moored on the River Tees at Middlesborogh just adjacent to the famous transporter bridge.Mr Scotchie has got the main web info sussed-have a look and panic.
This is the last chance we will have to see a turbine steamer plying her trade between Dover (and hopefully Folkestone!) to the continental ports...to inspire and give pleasure to future generations-who have lost the art of classic passage and need reminding of 20thcentury maritime ingenuity.
Let's go for it-Waddya think?
Never give up...
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
23 September 2010
12:2772107#10
welcome to the forum richard, excellent post.
sounds a great idea if financially viable, the main problem i see is getting the money to get it down here, repaired and refurbished.
i agree with you that if the project reached the stage of being ready to take passengers then it would be a roaring success.
best of luck with the venture.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
23 September 2010
12:5572112#11
Indeed Howard - excellent post Richard and good luck to you.
I suspect that the Chamber of Commerce would be willing to be supportive in any way it can and I would be quite willing to put to the Board what you want to achieve and ask for that support. Please email me on
advice@regency-ifa.co.uk with any further information, details, contact points, prospectus or whatever.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
23 September 2010
20:1872165#12
This is a Valentine`s post-card from my sixties collection. Forgot about this one. The `DOVER`.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
23 September 2010
20:2172168#13
Hi there Richard, and good luck with your venture. A very expensive one, but as we both know, lot`s of old steam locomotive`s have survived at enormous cost. Incidently, why did the T.S. Manxman preservation project actually fail? Another classic ship lost forever.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 705- Registered: 23 Sep 2010
- Posts: 661
24 September 2010
00:4972214#14
Thankyou Howard Colin and Barry for your positive words.
This is going to be a huge undertaking-the world wide maritme heritage community will have its eyes fixed well and truly upon what will be a daring venture. TS DOVER would make a fitting flagship for the projected port community trust and identify it with the perceived high standards of the golden age of cross channel travel.Talking about 'golden'-what a superb 'Golden Arrow' ship she would make-with an upgrade to some of her accomodation. I do hope the current docks row is resolved soon and the trust is set up unscathed. It seems a great pity that the port has fallen out with the ferry operators-when the root cause appears to be the down turn in freight owing to competition from the tunnel!
Barry I will certainly be in touch-thanks for the offer...however it will take a couple of weeks to dot the I's and cross the T's... and I want to put a bit of a team together for the visit to the ship to take place say early to mid November. I 've already done some work on a general prospectus and I'm hoping a colleague will help with the operating business plan. In the meantime I intend to get back to the ship's owners for further advice.
Incidentally Peter G,if you can find a square rigger that's connected with Dover and carries that name-I'll help you. I think you'll find that most were quietly broken up though!
Never give up...
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
24 September 2010
09:2672241#15
The Maid of Kent, Compiegne and Lord Warden, pictured up the Eastern dock`s back in the late sixties. All long gone to the scrapyard with the rest of their type, bar one of course. Is that to go the same way?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 705- Registered: 23 Sep 2010
- Posts: 661
24 September 2010
09:3072244#16
Colin
It's been a sad tale of woe with the beloved 'Manxman'. The Liverpool based trust were going great guns,when amongst the trustees there was a difference of opinion. A new trust was set up,but by then the owners at Sunderland had been through enough. Pallions shipyard had been very accommodating but are now committed to dismantling her after stripping asbestos. Strathclyde university are even doing a study of the scrappage under some weird EEC enviromental quango which dishes out millions for this sort of thing. Pity they couldn't do a study on 'Manxman's restoration.
I not sure,but as I speak the cutters torch could well be at work. In the meantime at least two of the new trustees are desperately appealing to the powers that be. I'll let you know when the fat lady sings..there is aslim chance that she won't-sing that is...
The beleaguered 'Manxman'
Never give up...
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
24 September 2010
09:4572247#17
On post 7, I had to agree with Peter, as I`ve seen it all before in the railway preservation world, but I have to admit here that Richard`s enthusiasm has moved be towards a more positive side, and hopefully a successful outcome. The picture above shows it to be in a better state than I ever imagined, with my experience of steam locomotives. Let`s lend Richard our support.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 684- Registered: 26 Feb 2009
- Posts: 635
24 September 2010
11:3872283#18
Great photos of great ships. Remember them very well.
The Dover was moored on the Gateshead side of the Tyne, by the Tyne Bridge in Newcastle, for many years as a floating nightclub - 'The Tuxedo Princess'.
When I was a student at Newcastle University in the late '80s I went on her many times; you could still see the name 'Dover', painted over, on the hull. She had a revolving dancefloor (well, I think it was the dancefloor revolving but could quite easily have been me!).
I remember her well in her Sealink/British Rail days too and went across the Channel on her many times. You'll recall she was renamed the Earl Siward in her latter Sealink days, before her happy retirement up in Toon.
If it is indeed the end of the line for her, then fond memories and RIP, The Dover.
Cheers all,
Andy
Guest 705- Registered: 23 Sep 2010
- Posts: 661
24 September 2010
20:0672346#19
Andrew -great to hear that you enjoyed 'Dover' as a nightclub as well as a 20th century ferry-now you have to do just one more thing to get the set! By the way she was (and is) renamed 'Tuxedo Royale' -'Tuxedo Princess' owned by same nightclub company was also on the Tyne -formally the ferry 'Caledonian'-sadly now scrapped... oh and the revolving dance floor was the car turntable-originally she was a stern loader only.The photo below is the most recent I can find-May '10 of 'Dover'-great looking ship! No sir this is not the end of the line for her!
http://severnshipping.fotopic.net/p65117097.htmlNever give up...
Guest 705- Registered: 23 Sep 2010
- Posts: 661
2 October 2010
23:2273467#20
We have a name for the organisation.
'Dover Steamship Company' -as yet unincorporated.
I would like to organise a public meeting in Dover sometime in November to initialise a proper organisation-can anyone suggest an appropriate venue-could be quite busy!
Never give up...
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
