Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#1
Trade union leaders accused right-wing "Tory Taliban" MPs of stirring up a hate-filled campaign to bring in tougher anti-union laws today. A tightly knit group of headbanger Tories led by Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) presented a Commons Bill designed to present a flarepath for a government clampdown on the unions.
Among demands put forward in Mr Raab's 10-minute rule Bill is that an absolute majority of union members must be required for any strike action in the transport sector or emergency services.
General union GMB general secretary Paul Kenny warned: "This is Tory Taliban mentality."
Mr Kenny dismissed Mr Raab's Bill as "puerile propaganda" and "a piece of 10-minute rubbish." Unemployment is up, the economy is on the edge of the precipice, the bankers are unchecked, and the government is at war with itself. So what shall we do? I know, let's bash the unions.
Rail union RMT general secretary Bob Crow clashed with Mr Raab on Radio 4 yesterday.
Mr Crow destroyed Mr Raab's argument by asking him if he believed that at least 50 per cent of the electorate must vote yes or no in next week's nationwide ballot on changing to an AV electoral system.
Mr Raab was forced to confess: "I wouldn't support a threshold for the AV vote, because a referendum which goes to the popular vote is not giving MPs or anyone else a licence to coerce others." Mr Crow said this laid bare the "hypocrisy" of the Tory right-wing.
"They want one law for the political class and another for the working class.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#2
I hate it when unions resort to creating the them and us class nonsense.
The political-class or the working-class is nonsense; what is meant by the political class anyway ?
Any one pounding the pavements leading up to next (not this) Thursday's election, is working class.
All the Labour elite, are non working class, they could be classed as toffs like the leading Conservatives are (classed as); the same privileged up-bringing, the same education and university - what makes people think they represent them any more than the man in the moon ?
Most Labour people nowadays vote as their parents did, or some very mistaken view that their party cares about them - couldn't be further from the truth - they just want your vote to promote their narrow view of what you should have.
Roger
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#3
Roger
Point taken but it really doesn't address the issue above in that the govt want unions to have an absolute majority in order to instigate strike action, fair enough you may say, but then the govt are not willing to apply that same principle to the introduction of the AV voting system.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#4
But Marek, the argument is not on a level playing field.
Strike action should always be the last resort - I thought the Unions agreed that some time ago; they seem to be reneging on that and using strikes as a first resort, not a last one.
With strike-action, I believe that over 50% is right, don't forget that that you are also stopping those workers/strikers salaries, hardly supporting them is it ? Unless it is absolutely essential, strikes should not be used.
I don't want or support AV.
Roger
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#5
Roger
I niether like strikes (unless a last resort) or AV but feel if the govt want to introduce these 2 sets of legislation that they should both be on the same ''absolute majority'' rule.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#6
You just have to laugh at the way the Unions use languarge still that is right out of the 1970's - they have not grown up at all and leanred any lessons.
Dominic Raab, 'Tory Taliban' indeed....and comparing it to the AV referendum! Well if thats the extent of their argument that is a pretty shallow case.
Of course there should be a 50% threshold for strike action. The reason is simple and we have seen it time and time again, trade union bullying and intimidation and in the case of the miners in particular out and out violence. The Unions have shown that they cannot be trusted.
(Oh - I would support a threshold for the referendum as well but that is a different issue)
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#7
50% is not right what about the 50% who disagree their opinion is just as valid.
There should always be a majority so as with AV it should be a minimum of 51% then it can be claimed there is a majority.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#8
Post #1 is a straight cut and paste from that well-balanced newspaper The Morning Star and should perhaps therefore be taken with a Siberian mine-full of salt. Why did you 'forget' to attribute the quote, Marek?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
#9
Barry
a well balanced argument and I am pleased that you felt it relevant to refer to: the intimidation and bullying of the Unions by Mrs Thatcher and her hired henchmen; the unlawful police tactics of stopping miners from travelling through the Dartford tunnel; the use of excessive force by the police (and army personnel) to force through a policy which led to our manufacturing base being smashed and communities decimated and still suffering from the resultant deprivation 25 years on.
It's good to see your compassionate side getting out!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#10
Mark - far more compassionate than the Unions who have actively destroyed the jobs of their members and whole industries over decades of restrictive practises and strike action.
As for the miners, I save any compassion for those who went through the picket lines and braved the bullying, violence and intimidation of Scargill and his thugs. The NUM strikers got all they deserved.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#11
Peter
Siberian salt? obviously I am unable to get direct quotes from MP's and Trade Union leaders so rely and relay them from other sources sometimes bastardising numerous reports. Peter.
My in roads to the corridors of power and its workings were closed or should I say shut to me many years ago,
However glad to learn you read such an informative organ as the MS you'll be telling us next you read the Private Eye.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#12
I don't read itMarek. When I see a post which is obviously plagiarised I drop a whole paragraph into Google.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#13
MAREK;
A very interesting article, and look at the respsonce you have got from the more right wing tories on here.
We expect no different from barryw who has always been clear in his determination to destroy all unions, without thinking about all the good work they do, and of course he would like to see them all gone, and workers having to go back to the old days of begging for a job at the gate.
ROGER;
I share your on view on A.V. but not on the class.
of course times have changed, just like unions have modernised, the old days of the miners strike have long gone, and even our mr crow one of the most militant in todays union circles cannot get people to strike as easy as the scargill days.
strikes dont happen that often these days, unlike in the scargill days, and unions dont just strike, and it is usually a last resort
i think roger you give away your viewpoint on trade unions with your first post on this thread.
unions have a role to play, and many unions across the country act responsibly and any anti trade union laws/legislation will go agaimnst the spirit of all the unions who have modernised and that are most of them.
we have seen big big changes in unions, and there is already far to many anti trade union laws, if anything we should look to get rid of some of them.
mark i wont even start on your posting on maggie and her class war on trade unions at that time
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#14
I would not ban them Keith. I believe in free association.
I just want them neutered so they no longer pose a threat to their members and the public. They have done massive damage in the past and are now almost exclusive to the public sector.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#15
baz;
trade unions like em,ployers have a role to play
if we start from your position it will in fact just cause even more issues.
responsible talking best way forward
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#16
Thankfully most businesses and their employees are not cursed by the Unions any more. As I say they only really penetrate the public sector and, frankly there is no reason for them there any more. Dinosaurs.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#17
barryw
i don't agree with you in the slightest but resp[ect your misguided view
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#18
i think that you are the dinosaur on this issue barry, constructive dialogue with staff is the way forward for any successful business.
if the staff are in trade unions even more so.
british airways will no doubt learn that lesson if they wish to thrive in future.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#19
Most businesses do not have unions to deal with Howard. 'Constructive dialogue with staff' - nothing wrong with that but it does not have to involve unions and mostly it does not, except in the public sector.
Unions are dead in most private concerns, thankfully and the staff benefit from that. Time for the public sector to catch up.
This chart here shows the density of Trade Union membership up to 2009.
As you can see TU membership in the private sector was steadily declining from 22% in 1995 to 13% in 2009. Even in the public sector it has declined, from 61% to 57% - still far too high a figure but following the same pattern.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#20
Surely the democratic process of 50% + 1 vote should apply to ALL elections; e.g. Parliament,Trade Union ballots, Company AGM votes etc. etc.
Trouble is very few of our MPS or Councillors got elected with over 50% of the eligible electorate voting for them, but that shouldn't stop the application of what is claimed to be a principle; unless of course it isnt really anything of the sort.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
