Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,225
Howard, you'll like this lift from Iain Dale's blog.
I was wandering down Green Street, E13, (outside West Ham's stadium) on Saturday when someone came up to me and said: "You're Iain Dale, aren't you?" After telling me he was an LBC listener he then told me he was a Labour voter, but liked my show. He then proceeded to tell me why, as a habitual Labour voter he was now supporting UKIP. There was nothing unusual in his reasoning, but he ended up by saying: "I'm UKIP Labour. There's a lot of us about." It was the first time I had heard anyone describe themselves as 'UKIP Labour' before, but I think it is, and will be, a growing phenomenon. Thursday demonstrated that UKIP are attracting votes from not only Labour but also the Liberal Democrats. In West Sussex. the LibDems lost eight seats to UKIP. Believe it or not there are quite a few Eurosceptic LibDems. Ed Miliband has reasons to be rather disappointed by Labour's performance last Thursday. UKIP cost Labour dozens of gains, especially in the south. Miliband will now need to work out a strategy to prevent that happening in a general election. Expect Labour to support an In-Out referendum and to toughen up its immigration rhetoric. It will be interesting to see which Labour frontbenchers break cover first
Watty
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
nothing there surprises me paul, traditional labour voters have always been hit the most by unrestricted immigration so ukip would appeal. the bnp has never gathered the support it expected in such areas as they come across a bunch of unlicenced bouncers.
one nation ed has to actually listen to his traditional supporters and not make the mistakes of the past where they put down concerns over immigration to racism.
good blogger is iain - wonderfully profound understanding of the beautiful game too.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
UKIP could follow my policies and campaign for shareholder company profits to be paid in dividends to shareholders and not in bonuses to chief executives.
It would mean legislating to change how shareholders money is currently misappropriated by chief execs, something I consider akin to downright theft.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
What I propose there is hardly a Tory policy, as we all know.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,225
UKIP took Cliftonville East yesterday, which I believe is former Leader's [Sandy Ezekiel] seat.
Watty
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Tough one this for tories like Paul, instinctively they are attracted to UKIP but their loyalty lies with the tories.
Do they vote for what they believe or vote to keep out out labour?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
not really the case david, iain dale rightly points out that the reds are also losing support to ukip - things have moved on.
watch what happens in traditional white working class areas.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Yes I get that Howard, but the whole point is most tory voters are instinctively attracted to UKIP, and not just the EU issue. The type of people you refer to, what were once called working class tories are of a lesser number than the likes of Paul and Roger Walkden.
It comes back to the tribalsim I refer to often - do you vote for the manifesto or the rosette?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
There are more important things than manifestos to vote for. A manifesto is a programme that can be diverted by events or watered down in the legislative process or sometimes even just dumped for convenience. Manifestos come and go and ultimately are not worth the paper they are written on.
It is far better to vote based on the values and attitudes that inform policy making, than policies themselves.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Yes Barry, but a vote for Cameron is hardly a vote for the type of conservatism you would like to see.
This is the dilemma you face, vote for the party in the vain hope they'll change or vote for a party who's core values are the same as yours. Its a leap of faith millions of traditional tories face, Cameron is not a tory.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Cameron, don't forget, is PM of a coalition government so cannot act like a true Tory and while in that position deserves a little slack. But, as a Tory PM of a Tory government he would be expected to behave as a Tory by the Party and the backbenchers. His problems would be far greater if he were to carry on as he is now.
The point is for me a Conservative vote would be a vote for the right core values and it is the best and only defence against the sheer horror of more years under a Labour government whose values, or lack of them, are utterly abhorrent.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
I think thats the issue Barry, voting tory is to keep labour out rather than for any positive reasons.
Although you might argue that is good enough reason
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
David Little wrote:
It comes back to the tribalsim I refer to often - do you vote for the manifesto or the rosette?
No David there are three options not two, you left off the person wanting to be elected which can make all the difference to many people.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
UKIP could also campaign to stop extortionate interest rates on loans, making them illegal.
Even labour doesn't campaign for that.
In fact, Labour have very much the same values as the Conservative party, based on speculation within the economy.
Both Labour and the Conservatives have largely replaced freedom with speculative repression: speculators would vote either party. Food banks, charity shops and pound shops are the result.
It's a LibLabCon hallmark imprinted on our downtrodden Country.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
david makes a valid point in post 12, i and many others usually vote for the party we consider to be less damaging to the country.
Guest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
Nice spin Paul, a master at work . It is not the disgruntled Torys that are growing UKIP it is in fact hacked off Labour voters, of course it is
Audere est facere.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Alexander D wrote:UKIP could also campaign to stop extortionate interest rates on loans, making them illegal.
Even labour doesn't campaign for that.
In fact, Labour have very much the same values as the Conservative party, based on speculation within the economy.
Both Labour and the Conservatives have largely replaced freedom with speculative repression: speculators would vote either party. Food banks, charity shops and pound shops are the result.
It's a LibLabCon hallmark imprinted on our downtrodden Country.
Again you do not make sense Alexander.
Guest 705- Registered: 23 Sep 2010
- Posts: 661
Guys- should we now expect defections by serving ConLibLab MP's to UKIP?
Back in the 80's I recall quite a number had the bottle to change over to the Social Democrats (SDP - remember them?). Appearing over night, they were a real born in a bag party- and were doomed to failure mainly because they they lacked a substantial populative following/membership.
Mr Farage,it would appear, has not got that problem. His party appears to be steadily developing an unstoppable community- friendly machine, blasting in across the country and on cue to harness the ripening power of localism-another interminable force.
Localism could have been Dave's get out card ,but he didn't play it. However some of his more astute MP's did-how lucky Dover is...a town that is responding by pulling itself up by its bootstraps.
A fantastic effort- a big UP for Dover!
Never give up...
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the sdp only really had appeal to disgruntled red voters richard, couple that with there already being a centre party(the liberals) they were doomed to failure from the start.
ukip are a different animal, with farage there they will continue to thrive taking all sorts of people with them. not just disenchanted blue supporters and activists.
if the blues had any sense they would have ditched dave a while back and offered farage a place in the cabinet, but the leadership is so out of touch they fail to see it.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
Labour and conservative have forgotten the truth of the working class
The working class are the majority, especially amongst the non voters
Most working class people are not scroungers loving life on the dole,
They want to earn a living, and have there Friday and Saturdays nights in the pubs enjoying them selves ,
with out morons over taxing them or telling them not to drink ,
They want occasional holidays.
They want affordable housing so they can bring up there kids in a safe environment with out scum poisoning there kids with drugs.
They do not want there wages and jobs stolen,
Or there schools and neighbourhoods, and hospital over flowing with Foreign workers and there family's
They see the conservatives as the rich boys looking after the rich, and there business friends
They see laborer as a party that no longer represents them, taken over by people that only support immigrants and the hand ringing elite.
Ukip cuts across all voters, especially them that have stopped voting for the old party's.
They talk the talk of the street