Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
IN the past year judges claimed £32 million in expenses, which included air fares, first-class rail travel and even 20p a mile if they cycled to work, as well as accommodation and other general costs. Judges can even qualify to have a whole year's salary paid to them as a one-off sum to help them move up the housing ladder if their work means they have to move to a pricier area of the UK.
Judges have what has been called a "diamond-encrusted" pension. After 20 years they can retire on a pension of half their salary - and don't have to contribute anything to pay for it. It means one in six retired judges currently draws a pension of more than £67,000 and on average a retired judge gets £54,000.
A judge can start on a salary of £103,000, rising to £173,000 for a High Court judge and £240,000 for the nation's top judge the Lord Chief Justice.
Last year the total pay bill for all judges in England and Wales came to £290 million. Many of them earn more than the Prime Minister's £142,500 a year.
The properties, some staffed by butlers, cooks, gardeners and chauffeurs, cost £5 million a year in 2008, despite Government efforts to cut costs.
THE top 11 judges in the country sit in the newly established Supreme Court in the Middlesex Guildhall in Westminster. It cost £57.6 million to set up, with almost £100,000 spent on artworks alone and has annual running costs of £6 million.
Judges are appointed and promoted by the Judicial Appointments Commission, which costs £7 million a year to run.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
What do you suggest as an alternative?
Justice on the cheap Middle Eastern style? or South African mob style? or maybe the lynch mob of the cowboy movies?
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
No just a more realistic pay structure and reasonable expenses claims. An example is the ''Bigwig'' costs approx £2700 per barnet which the tax payer has to meet,the gowns,stockings robes etc last year set the tax payer back a cool £600k. So scrapping these ridiculous garments would be a move in the right direction. Butlers? do me a favour Jeeves. Earnings exceeding the PM ?
We are all in it together claims Osborne..well only some of us not those living in Ivory towers.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
I agree that the formal robes and wigs should go as they create an unnecessary barrier between the court and the public.
I also agree expenses should be the reduced in line with all other government departments etc.
Regarding salaries, if you want the best judges, you need to pay rates that will attract the best legal minds from the ranks of barristers chambers where pay far exceeds the figures above
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
A compromised reached
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Define "the best judges"..........
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Good point...blast I wish I had thought of that. It reminds me of a sketch
QC: The evidence was plain to read on the defendants laptop
Judge: Laptop..??
QC: A hand held computer m'lud able to contain photos and the written word
Judge: Oh well carry on.....somewhat bemused
QC; and was also on your ipod
Judge: bewildered...ipod?
QC: A type of portable gramophone m'lud with the capability of also storing information
Judge: oh well carry on..
QC:Finally the dna on the vibrator matched
Judge: interrupting...was that the black supersize with self generating batteries or the newer model with rotating head? he adds knowingly
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
yes we face this in so many areas of life,
we dont always get the best results by paying out big big dosh
look around dover to testify that
if we are seriously all in this together then lets be just that and everyone tighten there belts,
this is not envy
but fairness
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 705- Registered: 23 Sep 2010
- Posts: 661
Ah a stab at real life Keith-nice one!
Never give up...
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
You can't make these stories up otherwise people would call you crazy but Jurors who cannot read English are being invited to decide the outcome of criminal trials.
Inability to understand the written language is no bar to serving on a jury. Even those who cannot easily understand the spoken word could be asked to sit in judgment on those accused of crime
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
That's worse than silly, it's scary - who would want to be judged by someone who simply can't understand what's going on ? Who decides this nonsensical idea.
Where is this reported Marek ?
Roger
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Roger
I found it in the on-line edition of todays Daily Mail. As I am unable to comment on every local issue in Dover ,living as I do in Jersey, I scour the web every morning,normally after I have taken the wife to work, looking for stories that will hopefully be of general interest to forumites.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
You obviously have too much time on your hands Marek if you can waste it scouring "the web every morning".
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
doesn't surprise me we have hospital staff with very little command of english.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Jan
Look at the time of my postings this is before the house awakens ,my only free time.
Breakfasts,family taxi service to school and work...ooh I could go on but a manswork is never done. I feel a hot flush coming on it must be my time of life....the boozers aren't open yet.
Right which clean sandy beach to visit today obviously one with a bar close by....it's a hard life
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Why pay them expense's at all? Nurse's, firemen, teachers, police etc don't get them. Yes I agree with a super wage for a judge but again "why expense's"?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
Like most Daily Mail/Express headlines the truth is somewhat less sensational. In fact a paragraph further down in the article reassuringly states:
"If a juror attends court and there is a doubt about their capacity to act effectively due to insufficient understanding of English, the matter will be brought to the attention of the trial judge who could excuse them. In more complex cases, such as fraud cases, where jurors may be expected to read documents as part of the evidence, an assessment of whether the juror can serve on that trial will be made at court with judicial input".
I have served on a jury and it reaffirmed my faith in the justice system and the effectivenes of being tried by ones peers. One juror, an Englishman, was taken off a case as he was unable to read the oath and there was a question as to whether he could understand the complexities of what could be a 6 week long trial over drug smuggling which would involve very complex financial detail. I was mightily relieved (NOT a cue for you, Vic!
) that I was excused too as I couldn't spare 6 weeks. At all times, however, it felt that the drive was for impartiality and justice and I left with far more confidence in the system having had the slightest insight.
These trivial newspapers that twist stories for their own anti-immigration agenda should be made accountable for their inflammatory tosh.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Mark
My only issue is the cost of the jury selection process. It's difficult enough bringing a case to hearing where both parties have copies of all documents,witnesses lined up and agreed upon as necessary, adjournments for legal representation and case judge availability have been and gone and court time made available only for the whole lot to breakdown a few days into the trial because a jury member cannot fully understand english.
Maybe a quick written or oral test in the jury room prior to entering the court may be the answer..I don't know.
Anyway I 'm wasting my breath cos the Tories plan to scrap jurys anyway and bring back the birch and hanging.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
oh Marek - really "The Daily Fail" and you take it as true - tut tut tut
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi