howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#1
courtesy of the telegraph
The Green Deal encourages homeowners to take out a loan to make their house more energy-efficient. The project goes live in 10 weeks but households have had since October 1 to have their home assessed for the scheme prior to its launch.
However Greg Barker, the climate change minister, has admitted that "no assessments have yet been lodged" on the Government's official register by homeowners.
Luciana Berger, the shadow climate change minister, described the Green Deal as a "shambles" and said its launch is "lying in tatters". The Coalition hopes that owners of up to 14 million draughty homes will sign up to the scheme.
Last night the energy industry called on the Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC) to launch an urgent marketing campaign to alert homeowners to the scheme.
Angel Knight, the head of Energy UK, which represents energy companies, said that members of the public are simply unaware of the Green Deal: "If you ask people what they think of the Green Deal they will say 'I don't know what it means, will you tell me about it?'"
Guest 761- Registered: 10 Jul 2012
- Posts: 115
#2
I think the lack of interest in this post highlights part of the problem Howard, most people do not know about it or understand it. Personally I am very interested in The Green Deal as it includes replacement windows - and if Facelift uPVC cant benefit from that when my name is Mike Green I am really missing something!
The idea is a very good one. You have an energy survey on your property and if, in 25 years or less, replacing your windows with modern energy efficient ones will save you more money than the cost of replacement, the green deal will pay for the work and then take it back off you through your enery bills out of the money you have saved - as far as you are concerned it has cost you nothing.
The scheme covers insulation, new heating systems, lots of efficiency products and is available to anyone.
The problem is it has been made overly complicated. You have to have a survey that covers all the potential improvements, but there are very few - if any companies that can do all of them. I do windows, but not a new boiler. I have a list of existing clients who are interested in the Green Deal because I have been discussing it since it was first suggested but cannot actually offer it to them myself yet because of the way it has been set up.
I hope the slow take up leads to an improvement in the process and not to the scrapping of the scheme as it is fundementally a great idea.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#3
interesting and informative post mike, yes i had never heard of it before i read the article but you go on to add that prospective clients do know of it.
would it not be good business sense for windows people, plumbers etc to get together locally and put a package together?
Guest 761- Registered: 10 Jul 2012
- Posts: 115
#4
I think that sort of cooperation would be a good way forward, the initial survey and agreement has to be carried out by someone with particular qualifications though - I am still trying to establish all the details myself and am so busy with current work that I cannot give it much attention at the moment.
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
#5
The green deal is an idea dreamed up by members of the climate catastrophe cult but who lack a basic understanding in economics.
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
#6
It should also be pointed out that the average payback time on installing new double glazing on an average house is nearly 100 years if the installation is costed in the region of £4000. A new boiler (one of those planet saving condensing types which normally fail after less than ten years) will have an average payback time of nine years.
So the inventors of this scheme expect you to borrow money in the hope of saving money, which you won't, the payback time on the loan being 25 years and comes with the house when you sell it.
It doesn't make economic sense which is exactly why nobody is interested in it. It makes a payday loan look positively attractive.
Doh! Epic fail from the greenies.
Guest 761- Registered: 10 Jul 2012
- Posts: 115
#7
For once the economics do make sense- it's the implementation that is holding it back.
Guest 761- Registered: 10 Jul 2012
- Posts: 115
#8
GGF did a full scale test on a 3 bed semi and proved the change from timber single glazed windows to A rated uPVC saved over £8000 in 25 years- much more than the replacement cost.
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
#9
Of course the GGF say things like that. All double glazing companies do it being their stock in trade. I've never come across one who tells me that they don't look as good as traditional windows or that they will do a speedy job with 100% satisfaction.
Next time they give you figures like that point them in the direction of this website:
http://www.rudi.net/files/TheEnergyEfficiencyofDwellingsInitialAnalysis_id1504373.pdf
I should add and it pains me to agree with him that even that arch greenie George Monbiot has views on the green deal:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2012/jan/13/green-dealGuest 761- Registered: 10 Jul 2012
- Posts: 115
#10
The usual problem with tinternet- very easy to find compelling evidence supporting both sides of an argument until a discussion goes round in circles and everyone gets dizzy
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#11
I would suggest everyone be very wary about signing up to these schemes. I network with a renewable energy man who discussed this with me a couple of months ago. Naturally he was full of enthusiasm for it and I initially thought it might be a cost effective way to improve my house energy efficiency.
I have changed my mind after discussing this with my other half.
She is, of course, a solicitor, she believes that this scheme might prove to be a problem for anyone selling their home. It seems other lawyers are also concerned. Buying a home that has been improved in this way will mean that you are taking on someone else's debt. If I was buying a home would I want that? No, I would demand that the debt be discharged first or that a significant amount be knocked of the price of the home.
Most buyers apparently do not take any notice of the energy efficiency of a home.
Be wary.
I will not touch it with a barge pole.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#12
Neither would I Barry who wants to incur another persons debt plus it is only another form of borrowing money. I would rather get an actual loan and get the work done by a company I trusted.
My son and his disabled wife had terrible problems after a new boiler was fitted under a government scheme because of shoddy workmanship from the designated firm after a new boiler was fitted. The oil supply pipe was damaged so the used a lot more oil than before plus other problems, it took nearly a year before everything was sorted and they received compensation. They vowed never to use any similar scheme again where they could not choose the company to do the work.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
#13
Quite right too Jan. It's not as if we're up to our necks in debt in the UK. Highly irresponsible move from the government. It's the sort of scheme which might have been invented by socialist economist (oxymoron if there ever was) Will Hutton.
The payback figure of nearly 100 years are calculated by non other than the Building research establishment.
Forgetting that the lifespan of Uvpc windows is less than fifty years and you will definitely have to replace the panels after less than twenty years because of condensation the figures for payback time are borne out by simple calculation.
So you spend £4000 on installing the windows and the energy savings amount to perhaps 5% (the difference between single and doulble glazing performance) and you might be saving yourself fifty quid per year it would take eighty years to recover the costs of the initial outlay.
As I say add to that the cost of replacing the panels which deteriorate over time and the cost increases even more.
It's rather like the rising damp con which has infected the building industry over the past thirty years. A non problem with a very expensive solution which doesn't work.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
#14
You'd have to be green to sign up for it
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#15
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
#16
This is just the start of it:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9694004/Households-may-have-to-pay-up-to-125-for-green-changes-to-poor-homes.html
I knew Cameron was a liberal but not a socialist. Then they have the gall to deflate the figures. Oh well another day another tory lie.
