howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
oh dear,barry will be happy.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
you must be totally gutted brian, your utopian dream of a european superstate where we all cower before bureaucrats is about to die in great ignominy.
still never mind worse things happen.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Fat lady has not sung ....................
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
yet.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard,i would still like the humble quid dissapeer first though.just to annoy barry.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
British economy would be better off outside EU, says Nigel Lawson
Tory peer and former chancellor claims union has become 'bureaucratic monstrosity' from
which the UK should break free
Lord Lawson said he plans to vote 'out' if a referendum is held in 2017.
Opponents of British membership of the European Union gained their most prestigious recruit
when the former chancellor Lord Lawson claimed the British economy would be better off outside the EU.
Lawson said the profoundly misguided aim of the EU was to create a federal European superstate -
a United States of Europe - and concluded "that is not for us".
The EU, he said, has``` passed its sell-by date```` and has become "a bureaucratic monstrosity" from
which the UK should break free. After an association with Brussels of 40 years, he said
"the case for exit is clear".
Perhaps Lawson has passed his sell by date............for UK economy to grow we need business.......the
business sector says we need to be in the EU......correlation with WW11.....?....UK cannot survive on its own.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
The UK can prosper on its own. It is simply absurd to claim it cannot given the prosperity of countries like Norway and Switzerland outside the EU. You do not have to be a EU member to trade with them, the old EFTA style arrangement is sufficient. The EU who export more to us than we export to them will not block that trade which is so advantageous to them. You are also wrong in claiming 'the business sector says we need to be in the EU' as well. You may define that as being the CBI representing larger businesses, but the Institute of Directors disagrees as do many other business organisations.
Lawson, of course, was the Chancellor who argued for EMU membership against Mrs T along with most of the establishment; It was he who, failing to get his way, shadowed the DMark in order to get us EMU by the back-door. That of course collapsed after Major managed to push Mrs T getting us in and gave us the warning we needed that prevented subsequent Euro membership. Lawson is not a natural Eurosceptic and his conversion to wanting us out is significant. Many previously pro-EU and pro-Euro politicians in the UK and abroad have seen the light.
For the UK to grow we do indeed need business but what we do not need is an uncompetitive EU forcing us to become less competitive. We need simpler lower taxes, less red tape and interference, many supply-side reforms and above all freedom from the dead hand of government.
Just about everything that will help business and growth are thing that you will oppose Reg.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
The question on the in/out of Euro will go on and on as the mouse is clear nothing's going to change under his leadership, although there are calls for a leadership challenge, or some trying to slowly topple the mouse, we are at this time stuck with him.
It Is interesting that the usual CBI who barryw would give full support to, because there not saying what he wants to hear, he now disowns them, and finds some other body that might fit his view.
Of course going the way of returning to victorian times as barryw wishes is not one i would support, which is what barryw indicates,
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
The majority of UK businesses say they need to be in the EU.......................
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
should be a consideration then
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith Sansum1 wrote:The question on the in/out of Euro will go on and on as the mouse is clear nothing's going to change under his leadership, although there are calls for a leadership challenge, or some trying to slowly topple the mouse, we are at this time stuck with him.
It Is interesting that the usual CBI who barryw would give full support to, because there not saying what he wants to hear, he now disowns them, and finds some other body that might fit his view.
Of course going the way of returning to victorian times as barryw wishes is not one i would support, which is what barryw indicates,
Keith - to correct you.
I have never been a fan of the CBI. They are far too comfortable and smug for my liking.
To suggest that I want a return to Victorian times is absurd. I want a modern thrusting economy, not one from the past and to get that we have to throw off the tyrany of big government.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Reg Hansell wrote:The majority of UK businesses say they need to be in the EU.......................
Big businesses, the CBI big businesses - not a majority of businesses and certainly not a majority of Directors.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Barryw, we have a little commom ground here(not what you wanted lol)
obviously we wouldn't share your way forward of less restrictive practices, which would end up in your practice employers even more being able to cut red tape(as you call it) but much of this red tape includes health and safety guidlines often put in place to stop employers getting employees to work unsafely.
but lets get to the positive bits where we agree;
Whoever is in govt should like you said we should make decisions as local as possible, with as little inteference from govts that we can.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
Barry always refers to Norway as being a success story but this has not been wholly as a result of capitalism.
Norway has vast reserves of oil and is the second larget producer of natural gas in the World. These huge industries together with hydropower are run successfully by the state. During the Thatcher years 179 billion pounds was spent financing her projects, rather than a modern coal producing country she chose through personal vendetta to close most of the pits. What remained were sold off to the private sector.
There is huge state influence in Norway and yet its people prosper through its state owned industries. Certainly having been there I can from experience say that their standard of living is much higher than ours.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
I have friends who visited family in norway recently who told me to buy a hot dog(£1-70p) iun Dover costs £17 in norway
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
that must include the head, 4 legs and the tail to warrant that pricing - need a bucket of mustard on it too.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 15...spot on...made many trips to both Norway and Sweden ( another BW success story ) ....never had
a hot dog but I was very pleased I was on expenses when paying the restaurant bills....cost of living equally priced.
# 8.....yet another of a BW throw away line ...............with out substance.....
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith - Norway is indeed an expensive place, particularly for us Brits. Have you consider that these prices reflect the success of their economy outside the EU? You need to look at more information than just prices to judge economic success and prosperity. They certainly do not have the problems we have.
Dave1. It takes a successful free enterprise system to turn natural resources into prosperity. If you want proof, there is much out there: The old Soviet Union with their massive resources was an economic basket case and, indeed likewise the 'old' China model, they turned to free enterprise and capitalism to turn their economy around, now look at it.
Capitalism always produces the most prosperous economies, at least until big government interferes as happened in the UK and much of Europe with excessive taxing, spending, borrowing and interference.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Reg Hansell wrote:
# 8.....yet another of a BW throw away line ...............with out substance.....
Here from the expert in throw away lines and a lack of substance.
Indeed the very post you refer to was far from the kind of trite trash you come up with.
I note that you are unable to come up with any real substance at all to justify the highly controlled, restrictive kind of economy you seem to advocate. As far as I can tell anyway, based on the fact that you hate people exercising economic freedom.