Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
#21
Exactly, Barry. All of which goes to prove, to me at least, that the banks are untouchable; every penny they're taxed will come straight out of our pockets. The way to put a stop to their antics is to cap salaries and ban bonuses - take away the incentives for corporate greed and you'll stop them. Tax them, and we're taxing ourselves.
True friends stab you in the front.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#22
Andy - this demonising of the banks really is getting a bit silly and over the top. It was primarily a cover up for Brown who caused the problem by removing the oversight previously provided by the Bank of England. Left to their own devices they were free to place commercial interests first and for a while it did work. Hence Fred the Shred's knighthood, billions of revenue were earned for this country and a mass of tax was paid. The problem is that the banks are vast businesses that are also highly complex and, as a result of a lack of scrutiny, allowed the higher risk end of the businesses to get out of hand leading to the disaster we know about. What is needed is proper scrutiny and appropriate powers to be awarded to the Bank of England to regulate them. All the rest of it, complaints about bonuses and the income of some people in the bank is just a nonsense. OK they are an easy target and politically it makes a good story and soundbite but it is all out of proportion. No Government should ever have the 'right' to cap the earnings of anyone in the private sector, it is not anything to do with them. The banks that the Government owns, well fair enough, but do expect the best talent to go to other banks and as a result the share price may suffer so when the shares are sold the taxpayers will lose out again.
#23
Barcalys have declared pre-tax profits of over £40b, a very good percentage of which will end up in the Exchequer. One of the best hopes for the recovery of our economy will be a successful banking industry. Of course, we could demonise and punish the industry, but that will just encourage them to take thir business elsewhere; not a smart move then to continue attacking them in my opinion.
#24
It is not a case of demonising the banks. If the country is providing the funds to proteect the banks and ensure that savings are secure, then they should have to pay for the insurance, you and I do. It is only fair, and most people agree on that. But yes, some of hte rhetoric can get overblown, but considering the economic crisis, that is not a surprise.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
#25
My heart bleeds for these poor, picked upon bank directors. Just the £40bn, is it?
Sid, don't be so wet - take their business elsewhere? Where, exactly? It's not as though there aren't banks anywhere else in the world, and just because the odd loony like me makes a fuss every time they line their silk pockets isn't going to make them up sticks and head for the easy life. Since they go out of their way to avoid helping the small businessman they might as well, though, for all the bloody good they do. Have you noticed how the phrase 'Venture Capital' has disappeared from banking jargon? They're no more interested in risk taking than I am in moving to Siberia, they seem remarkably shy of risk taking these days - and what an amusing paradox that is, since it was their own dubious dealings and highly questionable risk taking that precipitated this whole mess in the first place. I don't care what you or Barry say, the banks need firm regulation - and they certainly don't need our pity! Remember Baring Brothers? Corporate greed then as now which allowed everyone who could have prevented Nick Leeson from bankrupting the bank to turn a blind eye. The root of it all - unprecedented bonuses.
Disincentivise the root cause of the greed and you will go most of the way to cleaning up the banking industry, which is rotten to the core and nearly dragged the country down the black hole being talked about in almost every election speech.
True friends stab you in the front.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#26
No-one is saying that they dont need regulation and my point is that Labour's changes to regulation was the catylist for the banking problems so the real blame lays with Brown. I am also saying that they need to be scrutinised properly by the Bank of England with appropriate powers. No-one is saying they should not be properly regulated.
These are international businesses and if you punish them too much then they will take a lot of their City operations (as opposed to their retail banking side) off-shore and that will be bad in many ways:
1/ These operations will be conducted outside the scrutiny of UK regulators and could end up with a repeat of old problems in years to come.
2/ A lot of well paid British jobs will be lost alongside the tax revenues they generate.
3/ The City will lose a lot of its prestige as one of the main two world finance centres and £billions in so called 'invisibles' income will be lost to the UK economy.
We would all be losers just because of silly and irrational hatred and envy of bankers, not all of whom are villains, far from it. Most do a good and responsible job.
#27
Yeah Andy i think they would to is any party really tough enough to deal with the banks ?
#28
Nick Leeson was a lone gunman stylised as a "Rogue Trader". Anyone and everyone knows that it is virtually impossible to stop a lone gunman, in whatever walk of life and with whatever regulations and control or security is put in place.
I agree totally with Barry on this matter, regulation and oversight is required; not a progrom.
Finally, it would be very easy for banks to move to another country leaving high street baniking behind. Santander to Spain, Barclays/Natwest to Singapore, HSBC to Hong Kong. It's only moving desks and staff remember.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#29
"It's only moving desks and staff remember".
More importantly Sid, it's moving their profits and taxes.
Roger
#30
We seem to be getting to the stage where the banks no they carnt lose , they make huge profits fine , there in trouble they no they will be bailed out , surely this cannot go on .