Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
Remember all the old pubs we have lost,
Taxed out of existence, I think we have lost so much from British cultural
A good night down the pub is good for the community
I cannot remember one politician advocating the demise of this industry but they have all contributed to it, haw can it be that beer is more than petrol?
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
Paid a visit to the Three Cups tonight to take in Chelsea's epic win over Barca - long live the Three Cups I say.
Plenty of space, decent ale and a warm welcome. Oh yes, and Sky Sports.
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
It's called a cash cow Keith.
Anything the public use in vast quantities will get taxed, the easiest way to make money.
I'm quite surprised we don't get taxed for breathing but we have human rights now.
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
Cheap supermarket alcohol is the biggest single cause I suspect.
Another example of an atomised, alienated society. In 100 years' time when we have built about 10 million new homes on horrible, community-free mega-estates sprawling across the countryside, with just a friendly local superstore for company, the only "pubs" left will be hideous identkiit corporate feeding stations serving microwaved fodder in said grief holes, and purgatorial town centre über-boozers like Wetherspoons.
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
Yeah well the smoking ban doesn't help. In general those who supported this move rarely visited the pub except at Christmas time and even then drank only "Oh half of your best bitter landlord ho ho ho". They promised the world that they would make drinking in pubs more regular once the smoking ban were enforced.
They didn't turn up.
Blessed misguided people.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I was driven out of pubs by smokers. Now I am back.. How nice it is now too.
Smokers can smoke outside or give up the habit. I really do not care as long as they do not inflict their nasty smelly poison on others.
Back to the subject - yes, cheap supermarket booze, sold often as a loss leader, is the real culprit.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
i was drivan out of pubs by the smoking ban.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Don't forget the greedy pub-chains too.
Tenants have to buy their wet-sales from the chains and no where else. They cost much more than other sources too, so because they have to pay more for their drinks, they have to sell theem at a higher as well.
There's always someone who dreams of running a pub, but ask any one who has done it about the hard work and commitment. The rosy dream ends quite quickly.
Roger
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Brian - I find it so sad that you place such a high importance on such a horrible thing as smoking. You can actually have a pint without a fag.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
barry,both go together in my eye and thousands of others as well.a compermise might have worked better.but ill concived by an out of touch goverment run by nimbys.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
The demise of many rural pubs is mainly down to drink driving laws and the lack of public transport that does not help evening trade.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Sep 30 2003, because of my allergy to tobacco smoke we made the Yew Tree at Barfrestone smoke-free, the first pub in East Kent to do so. The wet trade dropped initially by 30% but the food trade nearly doubled, thanks to some useful news clips on the BBC. Within 6 months people had got used to it and were happy to pop out for a fag. But we did attract a significant number of non-smokers who avoided smoky pubs.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
another cause is over priced warm beer and microwavable food some pubs tend to use.saying that some pubs sell real food and cold beer.
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
#5
Yeah well maybe the smoking doesn't help, but what are we to do?
Anyway pubs were closing before the ban kicked in,
Brian, have you considered taking snuff?
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
I doubt whether we can blame the law against drink-driving or cheap super market booze for the decline in pub numbers and although the smoking ban could have been better applied it was just another in a long series of nails in the coffin of the pub social life we all (well..most) grew up with.
Politics alert!
While television has had the most to do to change how we all access entertainment it was the broad and easy path to wealth through property price inflation that skewed us away from valuing the public-house as much as our forebears.
The ever bigger brewing concerns altered their view of pub chains too. These were no longer valued as outlets for their products but became, more and more, to be seen as static high-value assets. Valued more for their position and their land value and the difference this all made as seen on the balance-sheet.
Knocking a pub down and building, or converting it to, saleable housing gave the Politicians scope to crow on so many fronts. And any that complained could be pointed to the wonders of cheap supermarket booze and the burgeoning number/variety of TV channels.
All is not lost, perhaps. The social worth of the public house is still a fact of life and the arrival of micro brewers and pop-up pubs may yet grow into another, post Victorian , renaissance of the local pub. I for one certainly hope so.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
It's not all doom and gloom. See:
http://www.thejustreproach.co.uk or
http://www.micropub.co.uk/ and follow the links to the other micropubs or the media to see how pubs can meet the demand for small scale, personal and localised rather than cavernous, standardised and anonymous.
There are more and more starting up too.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
That's good Mark - I must pop into your establishment one day when I am in Deal....
Just to say hello of course!!
But you might be able to convince me to try some of your beverage...
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
Alexander, I wonder why you deny whether cheap supermarket booze is a factor.
Has alcohol consumption in the UK dropped so significantly?
I doubt it. People are just sourcing supplies elsewhere. Supermarkets have killed off countless small businesses across the board - why would pubs be any different?
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
[poor, poor Alexander?]
I opined at #15 that supermarket booze was not a major factor in the closing of so many pubs.
The operative word seems to be, "cheap", and where there is cheap there is 'dear'. (Supermarket off-sales licensing should be stopped, I have said so many times.)
But, surely when we speak of 'Pub', we mean so much more than simply drink?
It is inescapable that with volume comes the lowering of prices;Supermarkets Vs Witherspoons.
But, Pubs are owned [and for reasons I give in #15] and are required to bring a return to the owners. The reasons why on-sale prices are so high is not just in comparison with Supermarkets, but also in order to bring a profit and where it could be said alcohol in supermarkets are a 'loss-leader' pricing of on-sales is often just a ruse to close the pub and realise the value of the property and land.
Simply put. Doubling the price in the supermarket will not, cannot, put extra money into the pocket of the consumer and will see a shift to smuggling and home-brew, NOT to any growth in pubs.
Pubs are no longer viewed as essential to the community, by Governments and big-business. This is why they close.
Putting a stop to the supermarkets' off-sales will do much to regenerate the high street, regenerating the high street will help keep pubs alive. And to help the growth in Pubs in general should go reduced costs and much added-value for the customer.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Sweden has a state monopoly on off-sales of alcohol (Systembolaget) and prices are relatively high, but they still have a serious alcoholism problem. What they don't have however, is teenagers going out on the town already drunk and looking for trouble. S-bolaget works very well, in particular you must prove your age even to enter the shop.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson