Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
Philip, I wasn't accusing you personally of cynicism and crimes such as pseudo-intellectualism, actually.
Peace and love.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
dave,to errr is human.anything else is not excusable.
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
Oh don't worry Andrew I know you were not personally accusing me of all that at all. No problems there it's all just the cut and thrust of debate and all that.
Howard I don't think it's fair to criticise those who point to the shortcomings of the local buildings which are in need of demolition. After all if, and that's an enormous if, an planner is finally employed to transform the town be sure that first in his or sights will be the eyesores that we have to live with day in day out. To point out how ugly they are by so many people must say something surely?
Those, like myself, who pass comment on the state of the town are always accused of grumpy old cynics. Whenever something like the giant telly is introduced and they criticise that things get even worse. They are then accused of being anti-progress. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Virtually every single person I know hates various aspects of the town which have been talked about extensively on this forum. They point to the lack of vision and the do-nothing attitude from those in a position to do something.
Whenever they talk to me about the telly all they do is scorn those whose idea it was to install it.
The telly has no redeeming features about it.
It is a blight on the town. That is not being anti-progress at all. In fact it is the exact opposite.
How you can think it's good for the town is quite beyond me.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
looks like we have fallen out again philip maybe you are a born and bred dovorian?
the forum team is made up of those that washed up here so only see things how they are good and bad but look to the future.
i fully understand the cynicism of local people that have been let down so much since the luftwaffe stopping visiting but things are now moving forward.
sylvie and her cohorts have bedecked the town with flowers, the olympic flame has graced the roads up and until our town, the volunteers from w.h.p.s and w.c.c.p continue to make our countryside on the edge of town stunning.
time to count our blessings maybe?
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Seems to me that Dovorians fall into 3 groups. Firstly those who knock their town at every opportunity. Secondly those who won't hear a bad word said about it. Thirdly those who acknowledge its shortcomings and are prepared to work to put things right.
I can't claim to be a Dovorian but have lived in the district for over ten years, and am originally from Canterbury. Now we have moved to Farnham on a temporary basis and I must say it's like a breath of fresh air. People clear up after their pets. There are no dog ends or chewing gum on the pavement. No drunks in the market place. No Wetherspoons. If you say good morning to a stranger they don't look down and scuttle away but smile back and say good morning (not dzien dobry). And people do not cycle on the pavements.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 732- Registered: 8 Nov 2011
- Posts: 128
Dave1 #38 Total agree with you, the one I would love to see go would be the gatway absolutely ghastly, blocks off all of Dover. Oh and as a Dover Shark I would keep the big screen.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
Maybe the DDC and DTC should visit Farnham and learn how to put right those things that irritate most of us here in Dover, I am sure they could get a free lunch out of the visit, on the other hand they could just enforce the laws that already exist.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
I think it is possible to agree with a number of things, such as the market square is a mess in terms of an ordered, stylish space and the buildings are haphazardly designed. It is also true that the fountain seems a little sad/silly sat in the middle.
That being said the screen has clearly been a success and I feel a brave asset to the the town. It is possible to make statements calling it too modern, an eyesore or just ugly, but what do people expect...it's a TV!
TVs are ugly fixed units that dominate modernity, orientating the viewers and putting them into a semi-sociable trance. In the last ten years I have seen bigger and bigger TVs in people's homes, as technology improves and prices come down. At a micro level I would suggest that 90% of people have a TV that is proportionally more ridiculous then the one in the market square. On top of this is the stupid planning term of 'in keeping' - something that blighted progress since the Town and Country planning act. Apply this to the interior of our home in the way planners apply it to the exteriors ( which I would argue inform one another) and no one would even have a TV...unless of course you lived in a modern building.
Perhaps to please the haters of the Big Screen we should construct one of those cabinets that some people keep their TVs in. My Nan had one; chipboard with a mahogany formica finish.
Or we could take a leaf out of Canterbury's planning approach and construct a Disneyland style Georgian facade in front of it to conceal the reality behind. There is added amusement with this, in that it would feel like we were Lilliputians watching Telly through somebody's window.
I quite like the screen, it's not perfect but it is certainly a success.
I also quite like the Gateway Flats and feel that they are misunderstood.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
The worst thing about planning in Dover over the years has been the total mess made of the roads - so much of historical and social value has been knocked down to get traffic to and from the docks as quickly as possible without any other consideration.
Judith Roberts- Registered: 15 May 2012
- Posts: 637
I think it is a bit unfair to compare Dover, a working class town with lots of visitors passing through, with Farnham which is a very upmarket area mainly populated with affluent commuters and retirees. Farnham is leafy, quaint and pretty whereas Dover is all about the stark drama of the castle and cliffs. They are chalk and cheese.
Having said that keeping the pavements free of dog mess etc should be a major priority for the council
I find Dovorians very friendly and have often had quite long conversations with people I have never met before. I think Dovorians often have that salt of the earth quality that northerners boast of.
I don't think the big screen fits in as well in Dover as it does in bigger places e.g. Leicester, just because of its scale next to the surrounding buildings. I don't agree that the market square is as ugly as others have said. If the empty shops could be let it would be transformed. If only there was a way the owners of town centre commercial properties could be persuaded to accept sensible rents the town could be transformed.
Guest 730- Registered: 5 Nov 2011
- Posts: 221
I don't like the screen. I think it looks ugly and I've never seen more than a handful of people watching it. I don't understand how it's been a success.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Dover is geography, geography, geography
It is a place people pass through, it is limited in space as people like the green wedges and it has a small catchment area
People need to forget what has/hasn't happened in the past, look to the future, and HELP do something to try and make it better.
People are dilluded really if they think it is all DDC's fault and DDC can get the town out of it's current circumstances, they only have limited control and limited money. It needs people to actually respect their town, talk it up and do their bit... !
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 648- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 258
Well said
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
I agree Paul but some people need to be reminded at times those anti litter and anti dog fouling laws etc are there to be obeyed so those laws MUST be enforced.
A clean town will always be more respected by the residents, one has to start at the bottom so to speak.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
which reminds me of the new enforcement officers
all gone quiet i would have thought that the recruitment and training process would have been completed by now.
Guest 758- Registered: 18 Jun 2012
- Posts: 2
I walk through Market Square at least 4 times a week, sometimes more. The Big Screen is normally watched by no more than 4 people at a time, and they are certainly not who those I would want to share a bench with.
The noise is far too high, discouraging anyone wanting to enjoy a sit down by the fountain, and a nightmare for those with poor vision, who use their hearing to help orientate themselves.
Olympics over, Paralympics nearly over. Goodbye Big Screen PLEASE.
Guest 730- Registered: 5 Nov 2011
- Posts: 221
I agree, I noticed one person watching it yesterday (Saturday) afternoon.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
I don'thave a great problem with the big screen, although have to admit on my visits to the area there is rarely more than 3 0r 4 people watching it.
the market square in parts is a nice area, and could be made to be much nicer.
ray is correct(did i say that??? lol)
planning hasn't been good, and hasn't helped tourism
something that dover now suffers from.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 656- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,262
Spent the day yesterday in and around the town and beach and I must say that all was thriving and looking very rosy indeed. The market was busy (bought my fruit and veg there) the beach was packed (had ice creams by the briny sea) and the market square complete with big screen was looking very nice (had an iced tea at La Salle Verte) Okay, I know the sun was out and at its very best but I for one along with my family enjoyed it all so we must count our blessings at times
Some photos on the day
All taken at 5pm, so late in the day when I took my photos but earlier there was a hell of a crowd at all places
