Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
17 December 2010
16:4985164Some of us are a bit unhappy that the LDs seem to have watered down Conservative Eursceptism. But perhaps we have no need to feel quite so unhappy.
Andrew Duff who is a LibDem MEP and happens to be President of the Union of European Federalists has attacked the Conservatives European Bill offering referenda on all new European Treaties.
This Euroloony extremist writes:
'""....referenda will unleash the forces of populist nationalism. Facile coalitions of nay-sayers will form to block Britain's progress in Europe. Regular referenda on issues of mind-boggling complexity will further sour the British people's already febrile relationship with the Westminster parliament and its political parties. Nobody need delude him - or herself that an EU referendum in Britain can be won, at least for a generation.
The blunt truth is that if this bill becomes law no future EU treaty revision will be possible if the UK remains a full member state of the Union. Plan B anyone?'""""
Wow - that sound good to me and very encouraging. This bill clearly must have more teeth than we thought.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
17 December 2010
17:0285165seems to me that it just stops further mistakes, but does nothing about correcting the present rules we live under.
anyway a bit of light relief, the e.u. has been sending diaries and calendars to schools all over the european union, they carry all the religious holidays of hindus, muslims, jews and sikhs.
unfortunately they forget to list the christian ones.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
17 December 2010
17:1285166First of all BarryW the Libdems havent watered down Conservative euroscepticism at all...I think you overplay their measly hand. The real truth of the matter is that David Cameron is about as much of a eurosceptic as I am myself...which means he isnt a eursoceptic at all.
Right from day one he played the role of a proper responsible Prime Minister and went hot foot with the Boy George around Europe cementing relationships and on top of that urging Turkey's membership towards acceptance. This was nothing to do with the Libdems, he clearly powered all this along in order to get off on the right foot...and quite right...there wasnt any sign of a Nick Clegg gun in his back.
The Tory backbenchers are not happy with some of this EU positioning so are hurling bricks at the Libdems. ..the easy target. There are indeed grumblings afoot but it is clearly a Cameron policy to embrace Europe and on this he has hit the ground running.
But I saw Daniel Hannan on TV the other night and I often wonder
a) what he is doing as an MEP
b) what is he doing in the same party as David Cameron
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
17 December 2010
17:2785169PaulB - you are 100% wrong about Cameron.
He is a lot closer to Dan Hannan than he is to you... Dan is in fact one of the main architects for Cameron's localism agenda.
The sensible thing to do for this country would be to be a thorn in the side of the EU which is, with a shadow of doubt, the most corrupt, wastful, incompetent, interfering hinderance to prosperity ever to exist outside the Soviet Union.
We will get out in due course and it will be the Conservatives who will get us out.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
17 December 2010
17:4185175No as was said on TV today..we are inextricably linked with the EU. Our banks are completely tied up with it, particularly with Germany and France and it is in their interest and therefore in ours, that the EU and indeed the Euro thrive. We wont half come a cropper if our trading alliance next door fails..who would buy our goods.
The new agreement about bailing each other out in the Eurozone is a good one and should guarantee stability from 2013. If they in the Eurozone thrive we will thrive in harmony so the present Conservative government, who loaned Ireland money for example believe in this. Mr Hannan does not believe in giving Ireland a loan as I understand it. His policy is to be 'a thorn in the side' but its not wise to try to dismantle or hurt the big market on your doorstep. Mr Cameron doesnt see it this way at all.
He mentioned Ireland again the other day during PMQ and endorsed his policy again saying it was best for all of us in the longer run. Not something Daniel Hannan agrees with.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
17 December 2010
17:4985176paulb
sadly barryw still believes his torygraph/central office stuff
thats fine but in the real world the UK has to decide in or out of europe,
david cameron is either playing a different game to different audiences or he doesnt know the way forward.
The lib dems used to be the masters of telling audiences what they want to know, they changing for the next audience.
david cameron has said we will remain in the E.U and rightly challenge decisions they make, but even the opposition from our david is often luke warm.
tories need to be clear what it is they want to do on the E.U
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
17 December 2010
17:5085177PaulB - It would be in the interest of the Euro countries for the Euro to collapse. There would be an initial shock but it would soon be over and that would be the catalyst for economic recover in Europe and would pay dividends long term.
There is a whole world out there to trade with and much healthier economies than the hamstrung crippled European economies struggling under a pile of debt, high taxes and interfering governments.
Dan Hannan is usually right over EU issues, I dont agree with Dan over the loan, even though it does go against the grain to lend Ireland that cash.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
17 December 2010
17:5285178Keith - you clearly do not know what is 'Torygraph or Central Office stuff'. Nor do I come to that.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
17 December 2010
17:5685179oh another "you don't know" comment baz when you dont have the answers.
you used to very nearly word for word re produce articles from the torygraph and tory central office, thankfully after pressure from forumites you refrained, although views sent in probably still come from that direction
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
17 December 2010
18:0685181Keith - what total tosh you speak.
When I have seen something interesting I would make reference and credited them accordingly, usually with a link, it has actually been The Indy, Grauniad, the BBC, sometimes The Telegraph and Times (before their paywall).
I do now sometimes credit the Speccie with bits of interesting information that I decide to pass on, with my own views attached.
All views I provide Keith are mine and mine alone. I am not exactly unopinionated.
You might note that my blog today quotes the Institute for Economic Affairs, fully credited, who seem to be agreeing with my views on the NHS... That is exactly how I use sources.
Time perhaps for you to think about how you post. Possibly you could start providing a bit more argued reason, backed up by sources, when you post. A few less personal references and digs at various people might help as well. Sadly the way you post it becomes a bit too 'yah boo sucks' rather than decent conversation.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
17 December 2010
18:1585184me talking tosh baz, what a laugh.
like yourself and many others on this forum hold opinions, you may not agree with them nor should you, and im happy to disagree with you.
thankfully im no longer a member of a political party, and although clearly prefer to have a labour govt than any other(thats from experience of nearly losing my home through the tories) thats a view i hold.
you may recall a short conversation we had in the white horse(when i brought you a pint lol)
you said yourself and my brother used to argue politics till 3am
well baz, i have a life mate,
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
17 December 2010
18:1785187No Keith - not to 3am, I really dont know where you get that from, to pub kicking out time which was 10.30pm then from memory, we enjoyed it back then in the late 70's.....
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
17 December 2010
18:2385191you missed my point baz
never mind
have a nice evening
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
17 December 2010
18:3685196i would not take anything that daniel hannan says very seriously, he is a master of self promotion.
the word is that our vic taught him.
if he has not discovered that helping out ireland saved countless jobs in the u.k. and saved banks from getting back in the mire then he has not been listening to what has been said by all sides of the political spectrum.
if the e.u. closed down or the euro failed it would not affect our trade whatsoever, the balance of trade is not in our favour.
we would then be back to the free trading bloc, sounds good to me.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
17 December 2010
19:1385205to much fence sitting from sucssive goverments since ted heaths time.
to much misinformation from the above.
being in fully is batter than sitting on the fence or not at all.
and is treason still a crime punishable death [to be used for euroscteptics and meps like dan hannan.]
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
17 December 2010
19:1785209that and setting light to her majesty's shipyards is still on the statute book as far as i know brian.
i remember being told that there are a set of gallows still in wansdworth jug.
don't tell barry though he will demand they be used on gordon and alistair.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
17 December 2010
19:1885210Now you are talking Howard....
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
17 December 2010
19:2185214thing is baz the public would start with the lib dem front bench
then the list would go on and on
where would you stop
and who decides?
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
17 December 2010
19:5485220Sorry you can no longer be hanged for seting fire to the RN Ship yards, that went out about ten years ago.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
17 December 2010
20:2085228thanks for info vic trust the reds to do all they could to upset barry.
as a sop they might have kept the thumbscrews.