Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#1
Over the past months, NATO has carried out a bombing campaign to bomb the rebels into Tripoli and bomb them to power, even though the civilian population in Tripoli is paying a high price in terms of casualties.
Now NATO is launching a bombing campaign to bomb the rebels into Sirte, a coastal city in central Libya.
The civilian population in Sirte is evidently excluded from the UN "mandate to protect civilians".
But some in high will argue another version, that they are "dropping manna from heaven" on Sirte,
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#2
Britain;
Loyalty,
Integrity,
Truth,
Zest,
Kindness,
Rule of law
Integrity,
England(?) and...
Great.
As Country Joe could have said...
"Give me a B, give me an L...What's that spell?"
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#3
I cannot work out why you are such a supporter of that monster Gadaffi Alexander.
I wonder if you would take the same view if this was 1944.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#4
Does anyone know exactly what type of government and with whom we are replacing Gadaffi with?
One, two, three, four
what are we fighting for
five, six, seven
open up the pearly gates
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#5
Marek - for one thing we are not replacing Gadaffi, this is a matter for the Libyans. Read my blog, be quick as I will be changing it Saturday morning...
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#6
Barry
Thanks. So basically we have no idea what the new regime will consist of...other than we hope it will serve the wests interests in its oil reserves..hmm.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#7
Barry your blog raises valid points but I feel that management of the aftermath has not received much attention. Obviously nothing has been learned from Iraq and I fear Libya in five years time will be an Islamic theocracy similar to Iran. In the meantime there will be a bloody civil war between the various factions - and there are many.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#8
Barry
As for your statement that ''we'' are not replacing Gadaffi . I'm not sure how that balances up with SAS troops on the ground and RAF bombing raids from the air. It sounds pretty much ''we'' to me.
My problem is not with getting rid of Gadaffi but who the hell we are replacing him with.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#9
every libyan knows why n.a.t.o. are there, the next problem is finding out who takes over.
the country that courts the eventual winner will be the lucky one.
we have a record of fighting conflicts and not getting the rebuilding contracts afterwards.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#10
As I said Marek - we are not replacing him, the Libyans are. If we try to put our placeman in then it will backfire on us and Peter will be right, it will become an extremist Islamist state. We have to see what emerges, hopefully thanks to our support of the rebels and providing we do not mess up the peace it will be pro-western.
Peter - there is no comparison with Iraq simply because there has not been a full-on invasion. We have a very different situation. We just have to see how things go and tread carefully.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#11
Whatever happens anyway lets hope the new regime remembers who helped them most..ie Britain and France, and that the Americans took out Gaddafis defences with cruise missiles initially. They, the Americans, have also played a big part in getting the millions of Libyan funds released. It would be good if the new regime was pro west and pro EU, based as it is on the southern tip of europe. Good trade relations could follow which would benefit Libya and its people hugely. Their big resource, oil, is always in demand and the revenue made could be distributed amongst the populace through various business initiatives, rather than just line the coffers of one man as previously.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#12
Southern tip of Europe?
Is Europe thought to extend to where ever there is oil except those places that can defend themselves?
Why would you think, Paul, that the Libyan oil revenue went to one man only? Was their oil not always bought by barter, in exchange for weapons?
Those who helped them most or those who helped them at long last and then only for their own purposes?
Maybe what we wish the Libyans most is that they too may enjoy the fruits of Democracy as we do?
Why shouldn't the Libyans either liquidate all their foreign assets or cap their oil wells until those who destroyed the infrastructure paid to rebuild it?
What is a good nigger?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#13
interesting post tom, i doubt if the average libyan is into democracy though.
each culture has its own things that seem natural to them.
of course the governments of the west care not about the destruction of libya or the traumas visited upon its occupants, maybe that is why the peoples of certain countries do not embrace western democracy?
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#14
One thing is certain, the UN mandate had nothing to do with what NATO went and did.
Guest 717- Registered: 16 Jun 2011
- Posts: 468
#15
I was wondering when this debate was going to hit the forum as it has been dominating the news for so long.
I watched a different take on the whole NATO bombing issue yesterday. The public, who yes have got freedom at a cost of possessions and people, were prasing NATO in the capital. One reporter described how he felt 'embarressed' as the locals were trying to give them their last supplies of food and drink in thanks for what NATO had done for them. They could not thank NATO personally so have been thanking the journalists of the 'west'.
Keeps politics to myself
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#16
Helen, with 2 million people, Tripoli no doubt has crowds that are against Colonel Geddafi, but also those who are in favour.
There are also those who are not turning out to publicly support either the Colonel or the rebels.
I think that there will be a lot of fighting ahead if the rebels, led by NATO airstikes, attack the central Libyan coastal towns and the city of Sirte. Even a rebel commander said yesterday that the rebels have few friends among the population.
As for Tripoli, supporters of the Libyan government are unlikely to go openly in the streets demonstrating their support.
Yesterday a report came through of a massacre of people, including women and children, in Tripoli, who were known to have publicly shown their support in the past for Colonel Gedaffi and against NATO airstrikes.
Some men among the group had their hands tied, which equates to an execution.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#17
One had an intravenous drip attached to his arm, meaning he was dragged out of a hospital by the rebeks and shot!
Guest 717- Registered: 16 Jun 2011
- Posts: 468
#18
From BBC news:
The UK's support will provide surgical teams and medicines for up to 5,000 wounded and food and household essentials for almost 690,000 Libyans.
With war crimes on the rise it is so important we help these ppl out where we can.
Keeps politics to myself
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#19
apparently the hospitals have had to operate without anaesthetic in some places, let's hope that the medical supplies get there quickly.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#20
Alex - this sort of thing happens in warlike situations. That is not to defend it, it is wrong, but it is understandable when feelings run high among what are essentially amateur fighters rather than professional disciplined soldiers. What is worse, far worse, is when such action being sanctioned and encouraged by the commanders and/or the government in the way Gaddafi and his commanders did.
It is essential that a new provisional government gets a grip on events soon and imposes its authority.