Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
20 September 2010
21:4271754Howard, just a little humour for Keith, and my big chance to comment on a political thread.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
20 September 2010
21:4871755Colin
I hear you
We have not had 3 different threads or 7 or 8 pages yet
lol
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
20 September 2010
22:1271760carry on colin, you do not need to be a political animal, your gut reaction allied with a spot of after thought would be welcomed.
i always think that the main headline that opens debates is crass and it is better to chew things over in ones own mind.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
20 September 2010
22:1571763COLIN
As I told you (and howard) it's very difficult to avoid politics as it effects your evey day life.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
20 September 2010
22:5071770Well this "girlie" (more of an old bag)
thinks that nearly all top bosses, public and private, are paid too much. Their yearly wages are beginning to look like monopoly money, some get bonuses and pension on top never mind any other perks.
How on earth can someone be worth over £300,000 pounds a year for sitting at a desk in in an office.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
20 September 2010
23:2871779Ah why not Jan if that individual generates significant wealth for their company and its shareholders?
Lets imagine that persons runs an organisation that generates a gross profit of £30m then your £300,000 is only 1% of the profit is that fair? after all they are responsible for directing that organisation, deciding what they do etc. etc.
What about film stars/actors, pop stars, professional sports people etc.?
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
21 September 2010
05:5271785Ross - I had the very same debate with the Old Man last night! If that one "fat cat" (and what's wrong with a bit of adipose on a cat?) generates development, efficiencies and actually delivers as expected........one of the things I object to is the fact that so many of the "smaller" (thinner cats?) people generate such losses, in their inefficiency and idleness!! I speak as someone who has wafted about all three sectors for what feels like centuries!! Not evenryone is idle, but enoug to make a significant difference!!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
21 September 2010
06:0071786I suppose some of my concerns are that the vast profits made don't often filter down to the real workers on the 'shop floor'.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
21 September 2010
06:5371787Howard - I was not suggesting that to you, it was an affirmation to what you said. Only Keith gets all hissy about trying to shut him up when his opinions are challenged. Its his substitution for a reasoned defence of what he says. Its a bit sad really as he does not seem to think that a discussion involves an exchange of views with the reasons to back those views up.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
21 September 2010
06:5771788Marek - why is that a concern?
A profitable business means a secure job
A profitable buisiness means expansion, creation of more jobs and, hopefully more profit
A profitable business means dividends paid to shareholders, often these will be institutions including pension funds, perhaps yours and those of the employees (personal or occupational)
A profitable business pays taxes too, the more the profits the more tax
Some years those profits may be very high, other years low or a loss - that is what business is like and those who invest in them deserve their risk premium for investing
Profits are good, the more the better.
The left wing anti-profit mentality is senseless as is the bleating about 'excessive' profits - there is no such thing.
I refer to legitimate businesses of course.
21 September 2010
07:2371791I will preface by saying I am committed to equality and parity. You know that. But I do get irritated when people bang on about how it is unfair that Directors get such a big wage when dinner ladies get so little, for example - as on the local news last night. Dinner ladies work a couple of hours a day and the biggest decision they have to make is which spoon to use. They do a vital job and keep our kids safe and fed and I value them highly, but it is not arduous, demanding, and does not need years of experience and a good education to do it. Directors and the like do not just fall out of space: they learn, develop, work their way up usually, and take decisions that have massive impact, contribute to the economy and secure jobs and livlihoods. Why should they be paid the same as a dinner lady?
The point is that we should all have equality of opportunity, and that is where some of our inequalities lie. If a dinner lady wants to learn and develop the opportunity should be there. Those who are happy to be dinner ladies are valued and we should support that too, and be grateful. That is not to say they should have the same income as the Director. Equally, Directors who do not deliver need to be culled...........
Now shoot me........
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
21 September 2010
07:3771793You are right Bern - equality of opportunity is where I agree totally. How to get and keep it is the big question. The re-introduction of Grammars and Technical Schools where they no longer exist is one way, streaming, proper teaching and rigerous exams in serious subjects is another.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
21 September 2010
07:4371794Firstly I did not state that I was anti profit.How you drew that conclusion from this
"....I suppose some of my concerns are that the vast profits made don't often filter down to the real workers on the 'shop floor'......"
baffles me. All I would like too see is EVERYONE sharing in a firms good fortune not just those wheeling and dealing but those attaching the nuts and bolts to their ideas
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
21 September 2010
07:4771796Marek - I didn't read you as anti-profit!! I totally support the appropriate distribution of benefits and wealth, and as you indicate, the only way to distribute and share is by having something to share in the first place!! One of the jobs of a leader is to ensure that all the people in the group understand that and buy into it - one of my beefs with the public sector is that this message is not broadcast well enough by the leaders which leads to idleness being rewarded or tolerated. Robust management and strong leadership are the best tools in the business armoury!
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
21 September 2010
07:4971797Barryw
Your words;
What private bosses are paid is nothing to do with you
That to me says i know best and dont contribute.
Of course I will continue to do so.
Let me clear up any point I have never been against companies making a profit, in fact I have an interest in some big and small to do just that.
So sometimes baz you get me so wrong.
Thats why iv introduced a different thread
on things we may agree on
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
21 September 2010
07:4971799It doesn't say that at all Keith - it says that Private means Private.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
21 September 2010
07:5571801Thank you Bern, quite right.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
21 September 2010
08:0071804BERN;
Well i'm happy to continue to shout at the outrage being spoken about every day on private as well as public sector
thats what debate is about
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
21 September 2010
08:2571815So Keith - justify your point if you want debate.
Why do you think government should intervene in the pay of private sector bosses? Ross gave you some very good reasons why not so what is your response to the points he raised. That is what debate and discussion is all about not hissy fits claiming people want to shut you up - the oppositite is in fact true. Come on, engage....
21 September 2010
08:2671816
