Prison stats
- 23 April 2010 20:1048788"The prison population in England and Wales has reached a record high, exceeding 85,000 for the first time." (ack BBC).
So, we have the largest debt mountain ever, highest numbr of immigrants, rising inflation, a weak currency, rising unemployment and now record numbers of citizens in the clink,
Not a bad legacy after 13 years of socialism eh? - 23 April 2010 21:0048792Well then vote UKIP.
- 23 April 2010 21:0348793sounds like one of your "flushing out" posts sid.
the reds relinquished socialism twenty years bck.
the yellows are the party of the left. - Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
24 April 2010 06:2148813bring back madam guilatine,that will cut the numbers.dont lose your head could prove fatal. - 24 April 2010 07:0748814Very true Howard, although I thought it was nearer 15/16 years ago.
The Lib-Dems are much more left than New Labour, but that message is not being put out enough.
Sid is right that it is a very sad record for 13 years of Labour mis-rule.
Too many white-collor offenders in prison, there are other forms of punishment that should be used.
Too many overseas offenders (no one picked up or commented on the burglary we had in January - committed by an Albanian) in our prisons - when they come in they must disclose their home country, so when they commit an offence, that's where they'll go back to.
Why should we continue to pay for them ? If they commit offences in their adopted country, then it's back to their home country.
Roger - 24 April 2010 12:1048839Roger, although you are evidently only in favour of saying no to immigrants who commit substantial offence aginst the law, and don't seem to mind the millions marching in and grabbing jobs and benefits at the expense of the British People and forcing millions into unemployment (inexperienced youths leaving school can only be lazy, can't they, when compared to a busy 20-45 year old eastern European marching into our Country), however, for all you are very moderate in your views, try explaining even that to the women with green hair sitting in Brussels, or to the 12 star halo characters. They make the laws! As Barry pointed out, we citizens don't make decisions, we're too stupid! the Tories will do it all for us. In reality, he's wrong. Brussels does it all!Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
Rule Britannia!
Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ - 28 August 2010 23:0267698The Government at the moment appears to be looking into alternatives to imprisonment for some criminals. Any ideas ??
Here is an interesting comment about prison life from Kentish Gazette 26 Apr 1821 p.3 col.4:
PRISONS with their modern improvements:
That the motives of the leaders of the New System have been highly laudable, is not to be doubted, but that their endeavours at improvement are useful to the public or to the objects of their solicitude, is very questionable... Experience of professional and practical men deserves peculiar attention.
One of the Justices of the Peace for Middlesex and Westminster has recently.. expressed himself in the following terms:-
"Prisons from being dreary and miserable abodes, have become spacious, commodious and agreeable; the offensive term prison has been mollified into the milder names, "House of Correction", "Penitentiary", etc.. tender feelings of the humane have been under a continual state of excitement to improve the unpleasantness of imprisonment, and the hard earnings of the honest and industrious have been drained to supply the means of rendering "Punishment comfortable" !
During these years also the alarming increase of crimes has been a subject of continual lamentation with the public. The coincidence is not an accidental one, is evidently that of a cause and effect. That a houseless, naked and starving man should be tempted to relieve his wants by acts of dishonesty, when, if detected and convicted the penalty is good lodging, good bedding, warm clothing, excellent food, cheerful society, daily visits of friends, the condolence and tender treatment of superiors, and light work, or no work at all, is only what might be expected.
Instances are frequent in which the accused candidly say that they were starving and committed the theft to get into a house of correction.
"The matter of surprise is when we view the wretchedness in which so many hard working men and their families drag on existence, that the regard for good character, and a love of independence, should induce them still to continue honest and work their emaciated frames to the very bones while such excellent fare waits upon choice if they will only condescend to be dishonest. The wonder however is rapidly evaporating; much of the face of the country is altered by the immense buildings going forward, for the better accommodation of criminals, they do not expand equally with the demand for places. In districts where a little old prison was seldom half occupied, extensive buildings under the new system are found to be always full and in want of additions, while Candidates for admission infest our streets and prefer their claims upon our persons and our property in swarms and in noonday."
On the attempt to make the criminal not only comfortable but religious, honest and industrious, he exclaims "vain attempt!"
Convicts may be taught a demurian and to make hypo-critical confessions of sorrow and amendment; a spurious artificial religion may also be infused into some of them, ..the idea that, through faith, they may avoid future punishments.. Some. go to their vacation of thieving, with religious tracts in one pocket and instruments of death in another. Others have been discovered at prayers, or at meeting, immediately after having committed a barbarous murder..
The County Gaol of Middlesex, called the House of Correction, but which he thinks might with more truth be called the House of Attraction or Seduction, cost £60,000; the annual expense of accommodation and superintending prisoners is about £9,000; to which add 5% on the cost of the building and the annual amount is £12,000, while the produce of the loitering employment of the prisoners, called labour is £260 a year. That this job, the Penitentiary at Mill Bank, cost the public, though but half built, half a million pounds sterling.
The annual expenses of this establishment in the House of Commons to the amount of £100 for each convict.
These matters merit serious and deep reflection before our philanthropy is put to the full stretch and the public purse called on to defray the charge of its indulgence."
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred - 29 August 2010 07:4967712There is a very real drive to reduce prison sentencing. However, that has to be tempered with exceptional planning for those who need the addtional supervision or support to reduce reoffending as well. It can't be done in a half-arsed please-the-people way, that way lies madness. And let's remember that prison/probation/community service is both punishment AND rehab - if we want people to stop offending we have to be realistic and drop the hang-em-high approach in favour of something that actually works.
- Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
29 August 2010 08:1167719BERN;
You got it in one.
Firstly, when people found guilty they are expected to serve a sentence, and there is outcry when they don't.
What will be the alternative? who will monitor it? will it work?
what resources will be put to it?
would it be less costly than prison?
interesting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS - 29 August 2010 08:5867728Howard - I totally disagree that Labour relinquished socialism.
They merely tried to achieve their aims in a different manner to their old and failed industrial based strategem.
Instead they have tried it through the imposing of their will through legislation and control. Their insane equality legislation, the ever increasing red tape placed on businesses also to help their political ends. The forcing of universities to take on student who failed to make the grade simply because they were from so called 'poor' backgrounds. All of this is socialism, pure and simply.
To put it another way - they gave up of the use of nationalisation and union power 'corporate socialism' for the use of laws and control, what can be called 'beaurocratic socalism'.
As for the LDs - they have certainly inherited some of the nuttier left wingers (as have the Greens) but the LDs do have some who are a bit more sensible to moderate the nutjobs, as we can see in the coalition. The Greens are beyond the pale and resemble the old Communist Party more than anything - totally bonkers. - 29 August 2010 09:1467731Governments always try to impose their will and their ideology, whatever colours they fly. I also note that this government is perpetuating the, as you say, insane development of cramming less academic pupils into uni places for the sake of please-the-people imagery and also extending it to secondary education as well, compounding the idiocy. This, I think, qualifies as imposing their ideology on the masses.........
- 29 August 2010 09:4767738Sops to the LDs Bern. Daft I agree.
As for imposing ideology. The Conservative Party is free of ideaology as such and that is why it is the oldest organised political party in the world (beating the GOP in the USA by a few years).
Don't confuse values with ideology, a common misinterpretation. - Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
29 August 2010 09:4867739mark my words of the gen election within 18 months
crumbling it is slowly slowly
down it fallsALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS - 29 August 2010 10:1067745Dont you believe it Keith - Enough LDs are locked into the coalition for their own survival for it to manage 4 years at least.
- Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
29 August 2010 10:1867747you heard it here first bazALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS - 29 August 2010 10:4367748Can someone change that damn stupid record?
As for abandoning the, "hang 'em high" policy, I think that is the ONLY form a criminal justice that actually works. Why? Because you don't get reoffending by dead people. Just think how much could be saved by not having to house and rehab crims.
- 29 August 2010 10:5267750... OR make them work hard whilst in prison... to contribute something worthwhile to society...
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred - Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
29 August 2010 16:3467781Kath
share your viewALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS - 29 August 2010 20:5367880that is my view kath, prison should be civilised but also a place of work.
it benefits none of us if felons are banged up all day in a cell, upon release it is said that they have paid their debt to society.
not true they have cost us a small fortune.
roger bangs on rightly about the community payback thing, a win win situation.
work is done that helps local communities and the workers are given the chance to do something worthwhile and give them back some self respect. - 30 August 2010 07:1967907Not sure about "banging on" Howard, but Community Pay-Back teams work for the non-violent offenders.
Violent, sadistic killers cannot be changed, nor can paedophiles and such-like, so they should never be released back into society.
I do believe in capital punishment for some of them.
Roger