howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
all official now portugal has gone cap in hand for a "loan" to rescue their economy.
looks like the government will hand over around £6 billion of tax payers money as part of it.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
In these cases, we are assured that the loans will be repaid with the interest, hence nothing to worry about.
Inevitably my answer is that if these bankrupt treasuries cannot keep going on their own steem now, then in two and three (and ten) years time it will be the same! So when they pay the money back with the interest, they will have to borrrow even more money.
In other words, they'll be asking Britain and Germany - and a few others - to lend them the money to pay back their previous debts, other wise we won't see the money again which we are being forced to give them now.
This means in essence that we won't see the lent money again, because whenever we get a sum back, we'll have to lend them an even larger sum of money.
Time to leave Brussels. I've still got a handful of The Pledge forms to fill in if anyone wants one. It's for a referendum on the EU.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Im waiting at this juncture for someone to say those immortal UKIP words oft times told..
"if we pull out of the EU we will save £60 million a day and that will save us from all ills and fix all our woes!"
Lord Pearson was fond of that one...
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
If we pull out of the EU we will save £60 million a day and that will save us from all ills and fix all our woes!
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Oh sooo glad you got that piece of tosh out of the way early on...
I feel another analogy coming on. Its like saving $100 a month in a high interest savings fund, then one day it dawns on you..hey!! if I stop paying into the savings fund holy moly I will have the $100 a month extra to spend on food and drink and cinema...I might even pay an occasional gas bill...jeez why didnt I think of that before! Gawd Ive been so stoooopid!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
PaulB - what a very odd anology.
Ok - so when can we withdraw, plus interest, all the cash that we have sent to the EU and its EEC predecesor?
We will be able to clear the debt problem with that cash and as any good financial planner would advice, clearing debt should be a priority....
Of course we cannot withdraw that money. that is why your anology is so wrong.
the EU costs us a fortune in many ways. Not just the cash we pay it.
There is all the red tape that arises from endless EU directives as well as the money.
Benefits, very few indeed - we export more to the EU than we import and that will not end if we were to withdraw.
The EU is an expensive, institutionally corrupt and incompetent organisation that interferes in areas that should be none of its business.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Well no its not all that odd. Its a play on the UKIP claim we pay so so much per day and by ceasing to pay it we enter into some kind of self reliant Utopia, although gawd knows where they get the figure in the first place.
What we pay in we make back plus bigtime. Hence the reference to the hi interest account. You are only cheating yourself by ceasing to pay into your savings account which protects your future and gives you extra income returns to boot.
Nobody of serious political intent wants to pull out of the EU. Some thought Mr Cameron might take the Euro-sceptic route but he didnt..and why not? Some in the Conservatives are so inclined...this was their great chance and you cant blame the LibDems for this EU continuation situation either. They, the Conservative government, have no intention of pulling out. Being in opposition is one thing but the responsibility of government is a lot different. You pretty soon learn what's what after the initial mistakes.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
this is a loan in name only, it will never be paid back.
the total bail out is 80 billion euros, those lucky enough to have a job in portugal earn an average of £9000. p.a.
the only way that portugal could start repaying is to heavily tax or cut services to an already poor people, this they will not do.
there is talk now of two seperate eurozones, one for the comparatively wealthy north and another made up of the mediterrannean nations plus greece and ireland.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
PaulB - your blind faith in the EU is touching. You may once have been right about no serious political players wanting out, back in 1976 during the referendum. That has changed. Few people are these days committed to the EU in this country. The debate is swinging towards being in favour of our exit. There are no real benefits to our membership at all.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Paul, Howard and Barry are right, we will never see that money back!
In the sense that when they return it, they will be asking for a higher loan to replace it. It will get worse all the time, the loans higher each time!
I have made some research the other day, and found that Britain is still more or less self-reliant on oil production. A lot is exported, but about the same amount is imported (probably to do with different qualities of oil and with the position of the installations in the North Sea). Britain is a net importer of gas, though.
However, most other countries in the EU import their oil and gas 100% or almost, and this may be one reason for their never being able to pull out of their state debits.
Germany's present dilema with keeping open or shutting down 40 year old nuclear plants is one example of how the energy problem weighs down on the budgets of EU countries.
I am fully in favour of prosperous economies in Europe as well as in Britain and Ireeland, and of cooperation, but the EU system is economically bankrupt, and leads to greater bankruptcy. Add to that the interference in internal affairs that have nothing to do with economy.
In the case of Portugal, there is no way the EU or the IMF will be able to introduce austerity measures that would enable that country to pay back the loans, because if they did, as Howard pointed out the people would be scaled down to having very little money to spend.
This alone would lead the Portuguese to ask for a referendum on the EU, so the EU will never require Portugal to repay that money, nor Greece.
As I said, the loans will be paid back in return for even higher loans!
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard,its £3 billion quid as news repots have stated,oh by the way i see you lurking near the golden lion this morning having a crafty fag,naughty boy.
barryw,nothing to do with blind faith,but there again deaf ears might work an along singing the la la la song.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
These loans should be secured against the whole Algarve. Then, when they default, we can repossess and live the life of Boland. Sorry, Reilly.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 695- Registered: 30 Mar 2010
- Posts: 426
Really?
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Or is it Riley?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 695- Registered: 30 Mar 2010
- Posts: 426
I'm not entirely sure!
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Ask PaulB, the champagne socialist-in-chief. He'll know the answer.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i thought that you was on the bus brian.
i am always impressed as to how you can give the cheeriest wave with the minimum number of fingers.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard,4 fingers and a thumb actuly.i have a mind to call you houdini in futer onr minute you are there the next youre gone.
Pssst!!
Paul B
In this country we deal in the pound, not the dollar, or the euro!! thank god.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Leader of the Tory MEPs in the EU parliament, Martin Callanan MEP (Conservative), states that British participation in a bail out of Portugal would be illegal.
The document signed by Allistair Darling after Labour lost the last general election and five minutes before Labour had to leave Government, envisages a payment on the part of Britain n case of a natural disaster or an unforseable event.
It cannot be interpreted to bail out bankrupt states!
If this is what the leading Tory MEP (member of European parliament) says, who is in the EU parliament in Brussels, then surely it MUST be illegal to bail out Portugal. The words come from the leading TORY EU MEP!
