Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#1
Oh dear!! why oh why did our hapless Prime Minister Gordon Brown do his publicity and goodwill visit to the US at the same time as the Pope!!? As one newspaper put it
"International media figure visits US... and the British PM is here too!!"
Obviously Popemania has broken out in the USA, so poor oul MR Bean has had trouble getting his bits covered. Not that any of us want to see Gordons bits, but you know what I mean. I find it extraordinary that he keeps making mistakes like this. In Tony Blair's day the Downing St team was a slick and well oiled media machine, and you wouldnt see them making this kind of timing error. The USA loved Blair, so once again Gordon has put himself in a difficult cliff-climbing position because his impact overthere is having nothing like the same effect as our Tone's did.
"Thank you for the contribution to our culture" said Gordon on American TV last night, while trying out his devastatingly uncomfortable smile on the unprepared citizens.
But a serious aside to all this...Is Religion making a comeback? Instead of figures like the Pope diminishing in stature on the world stage, his power and authority seems to be increasing. Perhaps its the onslaught coming daily from other religions that encourages us westerners to look more at our own faith, at our own beliefs, at our own icons. We are perhaps all jockeying for position in this brave new world and looking for somewhere to belong, or looking for an umbrella to shelter under.
Despite years of bad publicity for the Catholic Church in the USA, due to child molestation damage, religion and the Pope are as big as ever.
Guest 657- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,037
#2
Great timing - not!
I do think religion is making a comeback. In times of doom and gloom people look for something more.
#3
I could wish that we spent more time in grateful prayer as well as desperate prayer. Prayer is so much more than just kneeling or clasping hands together - as a form of meditation and spiritual journey it is without compare. It's uncool and old fashioned to champion prayer, possibly because most people see it as either just chanting old prayers, sitting uncomfortably in church pretending to commune with God, or the happy-clappy-taking-in-tongues stuff. In fact it is a simple as pausing and taking stock, taking a stroll deeper into stuff. It may be that using the old prayers can help, as a sort of "ommm" chant as used by transendentalists and yoga-buffs, it may be that sitting in a specific place like a church can focus you better, or it may be that gardening is the place for you to ponder/pray. Whatever, it is fabulous even if you are not religious!!! And if you are, it contributes a huge depth to your beliefs. So many thinbgs can become clearer with the use of a bit of practices prayer.
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
#4
Is religion making a comeback? I was not aware it ever went anywhere. It's always been ticking away in its various forms for 90% of the world's population. Doubtless it will continue to do so until the human race finally succumbs to a virus or is wiped out by a meteorite. Perhaps a fairer question in this context would be is Christianity making a comeback?
Quite simply, no it isn't. Sunday Church attendance in the UK for both CofE and Catholicism has plummeted in the last thirty years and is down by a third since 1989 with Catholicism taking the greatest loss. (UK census figures). Only about a third of the UK population has any belief in a god compared with almost 3/4 of the population in the US.
On a global scale Christianity is thought to be over all stable and growing at a rate directly comparable to global population growth (2.3% annually). Islam is growing faster than the population is growing (2.9%) and is speculated to overtake Christianity in numbers early in the 21st century.
Back in the UK, the 2001 census revealed there are 390,000 Jedi Knights. Hands up anyone?
#5
Druid, anyone?
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
#6
Dance around the mistletoe bedecked standing-stone with a golden sickle at the Summer Solstace and I'll invoke the Goat of Mendez just for you, Bern.
#7
If that's the very same Sigil of Baphomet it's almost a deal.........
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#8
i never think of us as a religious country, the US seems to take such things on board more comfortably.
most of the christians that i know originate from the carribean.
#9
In some ways that's a good thing - we have absorbed the faith issues into the culture so that we hardly notice it and based our laws and behaviours on (very sound) Christian tenets - and on the whole, overall, mostly, it works. That's why I am a little concerned at the idea of the Christian culture being eroded.....if it ain't broke etc etc
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#10
The Pope continues to wooo the Americans who are turning out in their masses to see him at huge rallies.Was delighted to hear that last night he apologised about the awful molestation cases and felt heartily sorry for the pain caused. Hopefully now the church has rooted out all those rotten types within its walls. A new era might be coming.
So many people are moved by this visit. A battle hardened veteran policeman on duty at the latest rally said on R4 this morning ..." Im visibly moved and Im not even Catholic!"
So the Pope continues to make big headlines in the USA...
and Mr Brown is there too !!
But to be fair to Mr Brown he is working well there. I know Im poking a bit of fun at him.
What Phil says is true about declining church goers, but church going is not the full story. What Bern says is also true. Western Churches gave us our basic fundamentals for living. Our blueprint. We need to hold on to these basic rules as it is our culture, otherwise it will be eroded by other cultures. Maybe these are equally fine in their own way but they are not ours.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#11
OK, I know I am highly political and regularly have a go at GB, but this morning at 6.30am, at my breakfast meeting, someone who is very non-political (if anything Labour inclined) made a point of talking to me about this visit.
He watched GB and GWB being interviewed by the press and listened to GWB's answer to a question about how the USA was dealing with the credit crunch. A long list of measures were mentioned, including tax cuts, interest rate cuts and improving liquidity. He was speaking about a whole range of judged 'balanced' measures.
He then compared it to GB's answer that he described as 'wish-washy bluster'. He said that for the first time he could see what George Osbourne meant by Britain not being prepared for a turndown and being backed into a corner.
I didnt see it but apparently the contrast was stark. Very damning for Brown.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
#12
Surprise surprise,I though Barry was going to say something nice then,wrong again!
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#13
Merely repeating what was said to me this morning JHG. Is there anything good or positive you could say about Gordon Brown?
Well,,,,,,,,,, he resisted Blair's attempts to join the Euro. There, I found something and now I am stumped!!!!
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
#14
Put the flags out,Barry does agree with something done by the Goverment,I think we should have another Bank Holiday to celebrate,oh no sorry Gwynn has already backed that so no doubt Barry doesn't agree.
How about Rebuilding or refurbishing Secondary Schools,the extra money for heating for pensioners,free bus passes throughout the country for over 60's,cheap travel for youngsters Barry!
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#15
John, how typical of a Labour supporter. All you cite is spending issues.
You have nothing to say about wealth creation and that must come first before you can spend the cash. That is the problem we have now, this Government has spent and spent while neglecting the economic base and allowing for an inevitable economic downturn.
Any Government can spend money and in so doing boast how wonderful it is and what they have done with the cash. That is the cheapest of political points to make. Anyone can give money away, specially someone elses.
The test comes when the good times end and the economy is up against it, when the hard decisions have to be made. Your Government has flunked it, backed itself into a corner and as a result we are and will become worse off.
#16
Perhaps, for me, the fact is that the Pope has more impact than the UK PM. And frankly that does it for me........
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#17
did anyone see our gordon live this evening in the states.
he was speaking at some foundation partly funded by the kennedys.
the welcome he got was amazing, he even cracked a few jokes in his speech.
not sure how much the pope got on the clapometer though.
#18
The Pope - clap - not sure if they go together.......Gordon cracking jokes is somewhat painful though, don't you think....? His smile starts off ok but his entire face drops as soon as he thinks the camera has gone!!!!!!!!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#19
the jokes were dire, but do we really want ricky gervais as PM?
why do popes only get the job when they have contracted alzheimers?
i applied to the UK grand mosque to be the chief imam.
the reply was most rude, not joining their faith.
#20
Just to digress for a mo back to the original postings, there is a website called Sacred Space which helps people to pray while sitting at the PC - it is run by the Jesuits and I find it helpful. If you are interested in prayer or meditation give it a whirl - even if you are not currently religious it gives an opportunity to sit and ponder a while at the desk!! (www.sacredspace.com)