Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Just received the following email from Our Nigel, which is self-explanatory.
Dear friends and neighbours
Following the dreadful and unacceptable activities that we witnessed on Dover’s streets on Saturday 30th January this year, along with our Member of Parliament and my District Council colleague, Keith Morris, we met with the Chief Constable of Kent, his Deputy and our Area Commander to state quite clearly the feelings of the local community. A few days later, I met with the Area Commander, Ch Insp Steve Barlow on a one-to-one basis speaking about real local points that I had not only witnessed myself but those referred to me in some detail in a sharing information mode.
Last week, I was invited by Ch Insp Barlow to meet with him with half a dozen other people with local interests to try to set up a network for sharing information and in an attempt to get information to the wider public. As many of you know, I have followed this sort of principle with various Access issues in and around the town for some months now.
Below is a write up of the notes I took at this meeting that I have run past Steve Barlow for accuracy.
There is another set of two protests planned for Saturday 2nd April along the same lines as before with one organised by the South East Alliance which I am advised is a right wing group that will assemble at Dover Priory Station before marching at around 1pm to the Eastern Docks via Folkestone Road, York Street and Townwall Steet with a silent protest at the roundabout outside the docks. The other, said to have been called once the aforementioned was announced, is by the Kent Anti-Racism Network, a left wing group, in the Market Square at 11am which is said to be a static protest or assembly that will stay in the Market Square.
This is being tagged OPERATION SKEP 5 by Kent Police.
Reverting to the 30th January, SKEP 4, there were 17 arrests on the day that has now steadily risen to 31, as of last week, with investigations still ongoing using CCTV footage and other photographic evidence. Those arrested are from as far as places like Anglesey, Farnborough and Blackburn to mention just a few.
Why Dover? – Something we are all asking!
Apparently the popularity of our town to hold such events is believed to stem from those deemed successful during the early part of this millennium in respect of the asylum issue.
The Legislation.
A march or assembly must not prevent or hinder others therefore there must be an assumption that a peaceful situation will prevail, not annoying or disdainful. However, anyone who does not act lawfully doesn’t take away the right to protest. The police have powers to keep order which include conditions that can be applied to a march or assembly that causes disruption to life.
The introduction of Conditions is something that the Chief Constable can consider with sufficient evidence.
In law, the fracas in Dover on 30th January is not classed as ‘Serious’. ‘Serious’ are events such as that in Tottenham in 2011 when the Metropolitan Police faced a total riot as some of you will remember.
Banning.
There is nothing in legislation that would enable an assembly to be banned.
To ban a protest march there would need to be evidence of serious public disorder for the Chief Constable to act. He would them need to approach the Chief Executive of Dover District Council for support and then appeal to the Home Secretary who will make any decision.
If this line was taken, there is nothing to stop people coming into town in groups without the police knowing and thus sufficient resources may not be available to deal with any unacceptable anti-social activities that may arise.
What now.
Ch Insp Barlow and his local team of officers intend to provide those of us who attended his meeting with updates as they are received that I will pass to you.
If you do not wish to be kept updated on this please let me know.
HOWEVER, this will be information from Kent Police so any queries or questions will need to go to them.
Kent Police will also be dealing directly with the media in general, including social media.
Regards
Nigel
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Thanks to Nigel for the detailed report although I disagree as to why Dover is the most popular venue for such things.
If the law is applied properly we can expect the same awful behaviour from the same awful people as before. Let's not kid ourselves the yob element from both sides will be aware of this and are are salivating at the thought of April the 2nd.
Guest 977- Registered: 27 Jun 2013
- Posts: 1,031
"A march or assembly must not prevent or hinder others therefore there must be an assumption that a peaceful situation will prevail, not annoying or disdainful"
Two points here -
1 Having a march allowed along Folkestone Road, York St and Townwall St followed by a silent protest blocking the Eastern Docks roundabout IS hindering others wanting to use those public highways, even if there is no violence. What sort of idiot thinks that's not the case.
2 Following previous events there CANNOT be an assumption that a peaceful situation will prevail, in fact the evidence points to exactly the opposite.
But I don't hold out any hope that sense will prevail.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I said long ago that we get it easy compared to other towns who have this sort of behaviour quite regularly on a Saturday with shops not opening for business and putting up shutters to protect their property. Legislation is clearly too complicated and means that too many people have to agree as one on a solution which is a nice get out for anyone who fears that their head may roll.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
I would have thought that so many refuse or avoid a trip into town on these "march or assembly" days is a hindrance. Locals could not use Folkestone Road last time which is a high population access road so it seems the town and businesses are going to be f****d yet again.
I wonder how many of our local politicians will be in the Market Square supporting this left wing bunch of morons.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
This cannot be right it is just the way they look at the law,which is not the same way as the rest of us.
The police are there to keep law and order and safe so the public can walk around the town .They must not let the march go ahead on the grounds that it is putting members of the public life in danger .
Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,259
Our idiot Ch. insp. Needs to learn to read, interpreting the law to his own convenience is totally unacceptable.
He needs to go the same ways as the idiot Barnes.
Arte et Marte
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
On paper the fairest way would have been to let the far right have their march to to the docks as they made their announcement first but we know from experience that some well meaning people and god botherers would hold a peaceful vigil in Market Square whilst the far left go on the attack from behind the leisure centre.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Post 7 on your side over this one what we need is real policemen about 6ft in hight and coming in about 14stone like they were some years ago, they are smaller now and just stand there,years ago they would have been on horse back long sticks etc.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I can only repeat what I said on the morning of January 30th, the police officers I saw at the station at in town were all built like brick outhouses and as we saw in photos later they had adequate protection and very large sticks but it made little difference to the outcome.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Now another lot join in.
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We will be running subsidised transport to get as many anti-fascists to Dover, if you cannot come then please consider donating at the link below. We will provide transport for as many anti-fascists that want to come and oppose these dregs. So please donate! xx
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We are putting out an appeal for funds to cover large costs that were incurred in recent mobilisations. We are a completely volunteer and self-organised ...
FUNDLY.COM
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
After the last demo I got a lot of flak for suggesting that Dovorians should stage a mass sit down demo in the road ahead of the protesters. That would of course constitute obstruction and civil disobedience. (Perish the thought). I shall now suggest that we quietly line the route of the march en masse and turn our backs on the demonstrators. And campaign for no Dover businesses to provide any sort of accommodation, food, drink or other services to demonstrators from either side.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Wouldn't work Mr McMullan and whoever runs the Priory hotel do very good business out of our far right visitors, as for the far left most of them are still into Vimto.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Anybody got any better ideas? I get so p155ed off with people just accepting Dover being trampled on.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 977- Registered: 27 Jun 2013
- Posts: 1,031
I suggest we all write to the Chief Constable etc saying as residents we intend, indeed need, to use those roads at that time on that day to go about our normal business and would they please ensure that nothing hinders us (quoting the relevant legislation which should be easy enough to find).
Guest 977- Registered: 27 Jun 2013
- Posts: 1,031
Here's one link to official government advice on
protests and marches.
There's a few things that could be done to stop a repeat of the last one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The police have the power to:
- limit or change the route of your march
- set any other condition of your march
The police can also:
- change the location
- limit how long a rally lasts
- limit the amount of people who attend
- stop a sit-down protest if it blocks road traffic or public walkways
Guest 977- Registered: 27 Jun 2013
- Posts: 1,031
Another link, this time from
Law Firm Directory
Quote -
The police have the right to ban all processions or a specific class of procession in a local area for up to three months, by applying for a banning order. This is commonly done when a local police Chief Constable believes that police would be unable to prevent serious public order if a march was allowed to go ahead.
Outside London, banning orders are provided by the local council and can be made subject to a judicial review if it is felt the correct process for assessing the march for a banning order was not followed.
So we should make it plain to the Chief Constable that he might not consider the disorder at the last march was 'serious' but the residents do, and the number of arrests and type of offence support this.
Guest 977- Registered: 27 Jun 2013
- Posts: 1,031
I'll stop there.
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,259
Going back to the original post, 'serious is Tottenham' it was 1 faction causing civil unrest about the police killing someone.
Dover knowing that 2 rival factions are going to deliberately set about fighting each other with the potential threat to human life that that would entail isn't serious. When did a human life become unworthy of protection regardless of which shade of scum it is?
Arte et Marte
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Having read the last few posts the fact remains that too many important people are involved in the decision making and as we are a small town stuck on the end of the country, much as Calais is the same, and we don't really matter to people at the top.
What matters on April the 2nd Is that there are a lot more police and a lot more planning by them as there will be more protesters now that they know the town is an easy touch.
