Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#21
Hellooo Phil..just to clarify these were not asylum seekers, its just a co-incidence they chose that end of the beach, but clearly resident in the UK as they had a good level of affluence which you could see in the way they dressed and their video cameras and so on. When the day was over they moved up through the town to return to their cars and/or coaches etc
The point is..if resident in UK, then it doesnt hold out much optimism for all our futures to see them deliberately choose to segregate themselves. The idea is to integrate..thats the government gameplan..to encourage English speaking and so on so that integration can happen, we have though had some laughable attempts at moving this forward with things like the citizen celebrations. But at least attempts are being made to move forward by the powers that be here..but the appetite for integration doesnt seem to be there in the 'foreign enclaves'.
#22
What incentives are there to integrate? And disincentives?
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
#23
Should not the main objective be to leave what ever has happened in their past behind and look to the future by trying to become part of the community.
Encourage their children to mix, (children mix far easier than adults) let them join youth groups and get involved together. I used to say in N. Ireland part of the problem was that neither the two should mix. You either went to a Protestant school or a Catholic School where as if you let the kids mix then you start to break down the barriers.
Not sure but I think the local immigrants do go to the same schools, if they do then it appears to end there. The youngsters from the immigration community do not appear to join local youth groups and organisations, do they even know there are youths organisations in Dover that they can join? Once you have the young joining in together then the adults normally will follow.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#24
HARRY
I think its a litle bit more complicated than you suggest.
In the main as you say children are unlike adults and do mix more easily, but having been part of a youth club we didd have some ethnic minorities come along but one was a bully, then there was the launguage barrier, then there was the tensions between the local community and these families.
I could go on, but the problem realy is, how can people be educated to understand these people are here and unlikely to move, so its bes to work together for brighter community, It can be achieved with the wil on both parts, but i dont see that comittment at the moment,
In the very early days we held a public meeting on ayslum and the problems in priory which resulted in the then home sec(jack straw)visited Dover to meet local people, some of the situations got better, but still there are problems
children not in school, launguge barriers, local community not willing to work together,
Ihope in time agencies will get together with locals and we can move forward, but by some of the comments I hear by local people at the moment i think its a long way off.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
#25
Keith I agree it is more complicated and as some one who has just left Scouting after 32 years service I do know the problems you speak about.
Some years ago a Scout Group was sugested to meet the needs of imigration sections within the community, but it was agreed back then, that it was not in Scouting to single out minority groups within the community and it would be far be better to have then join in the groups already running, there by getting them to intergrate. Only problem it has never happened.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#26
Harry
you can duplicate that across many other organisations,
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
#27
Paul, the main reason for non-intergration is the misguided attempt to create a multcultural society (a contradiction in terms). Until the disproportionate influence of a tiny metropolitan elite is rolled back this country will continue to fragment.
France is not squeamish about asserting national pride and identity - Britain is and I for one have ceased to care about it.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#28
Andrew
sadly that argument can be used in many walks of life outside of immigration
the country has moved on from being this GREAT BRITAIN some time ago,
we need to adapt to a new way of going forward
or we can stick our head in the sand and the probems go on
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#29
andrew makes a valid point here.
they are a secular society, it is made clear that pupils in schools cannot wear any overt religious symbols
that applies to all religions equally.
over here we get cases going to the "house of lords" over someone wearing a bracelet
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#30
Howard
Yes all that kind of CRAP hAS gone to far, and does little to bring people together, in fact it has the opposite effect
#31
Andrew's absolutely right as ever.
The cadaverous, lily-livered metropolitan ZanuLabour elite who are gorging themselves in Westminster are fast-tracking this once great nation into becoming a dangerous and bitter apartheid-style basket-case of a second world country.
The sooner they f*** off for good the better. An absolute shower (like all politicians - period).
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#32
i must confess that i could not see the point of the last post, full of bile, but nothing else.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
#33
I am all for free speech,when people have something constructive to say,but like Howard can't see the point in that posting,we can all slag off everything and
everybody,but that just makes us Bitter and Twisted.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#34
John
I do understand where you are coming from, but you would admit(if your honest) politicians in general don't do themselves any justice at all
Whether it be local or national.
Every da people are swtiching off politcs and I feel that is a great shame cos it affects our every day life.
It aint going to happen but we need a new look attempting to engage everyone bak into the fold, with voting turnout down to its lowest ever level at all electionsit does become questionable how representative those elected are when a large majority have not voted for anyone.
All pure choice, but it is of concern
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
#35
Asylum seekers are the least of the town's problems these days.
I am far more worried by all the white trash - boy racers and thugs roaming around, drunk or otherwise, shouting and fighting, annoying and initimidating people and generally believing themselves to be untouchable.
Surely these matters cannot be so hard to police? What could be easier than setting speed traps for these idiotic motorised juveniles?
And we need to police known hotspots more vigorously to nip anti-social behaviour in the bud.
Of course the real solution lies in recreating more stable, caring families, ditto society, but that is a long job and in my opinion is up to individual citizens and not something the government can do.
In the meantime we can at least try to relieve the symptoms.
#36
But the government always engineers social structures - partly by taxation, giving tax breaks to those who conform, and partly by punishment by denying some people access to benefits that others have as a right because they conform. Government bears the responsibility for that reason!!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#37
lost me on that one bern.
i thought that all of our population was entitled to benefits if they were out of work.
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
#38
I agree the government can tilt the playing field this way and that - but they can't raise people's kids for them, teach them right from wrong, character, discipline, a moral code etc. They can't legislate for people's sexual behaviour unless you want Taleban style repression. They can manipulate the tax system to make marriage more attractive but they can't fully control whether people choose to get/stay together or divorce; nor whether they lead fulfilling lives and produce children who do the same, or waste themselves and produce angry, dysfunctional offspring...OK I accept if you are in real poverty and/or unemployed leading a decent life is very hard...and there the government has a role. But for me, saying 'it's up to the government' is both wishful thinking and an abdication of individual responsibility. The Tories won't be able to 'mend our broken society' any more than Labour has, without individuals and institutions doing their bit.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#39
Andrew
Your right in your post, its up to EVERYONE to help get society back on track, sadly its going to take a long time to get to tha stage, and its looking very unlikely at the moment