Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#1
You will have heard the story on the news programmes last night that we have no Blue Flags along this part of the South Coast whatsoever....indicating that the water off our beaches is fairly awful, fairly lethal. You can see why Dover doesnt have a Blue Flag..take a look at this picture taken last night. Light was low so clarity not great and colour a bit odd but you get the message. Would you dive into this..??
kids do it all the time.
This would be a frontpage story but am currently trying to 'flag-up' Dover's image on there.
...what with international cruise liners arriving and so on.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#2
The Kent on Line are also following this topic and here's what they say
Six of Kent's beaches have lost their blue flag status - and they are all on Thanet's coastline.Margate Main Sands, Minnis Bay, Ramsgate Main Sands, St Mildred's Bay, Stone Bay and West Bay have all missed out this time.
Botany Bay, Joss Bay and Westbrook Bay have kept the status, which is given for excellent water quality and high standards of cleanliness.No other beach in Kent has won the prestigious blue flag.
Thanet Council blamed freak weather.
Commercial services manager Mark Seed said: "There's no denying that it's a real shame that we haven't been able to achieve more Blue Flag awards this year, especially as historically we've done so well in the past.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#3
And, according to the BBC this morning, the new Lonely Planet guide describes Dover as being 'down in the dumps', having 'seen better days' and being 'one of the worst tourist destinations in England'.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#4
Considering all the muck that gets dumped in the Channel by passing ships it amazes me that the area ever got a blue flag in the past.
An area that has a port in it will never get a Blue Flag there is just too many factors against it. By the way I think that calling the water off the beaches "fairly awful, fairly lethal" is an exaggeration Paul.
Blue Flag perfection is another example of the present hysteria that everything has to be squeaky clean, we need a few bugs to build up our immunity but that is another discussion.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#5
the bathing water in dover continually gets passed as reaching eu standards, there is a sign up on the front confirming this.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#6
I wonder if thats carried out Howard by the same people who told us there was no roadside pollution from all the trucking!!
That report from the Lonely Planet sounds fairly grimmm and is a pity. The seafront is looking good anyway after all the money spent...the beach is clean, cleaned every morning religiously..but the water!?
Families were interviewed on tv, for those with young families the Blue Flag it seems is very important.
The seafront is looking good but once you amble inland you are hit by the look of depression...hence the report from The Lonely Planet. Thousands and thousands came here yesterday on the three cruise liners as seen on the frontpage...but just a small smattering will have ventured into town. Reams of busses were waiting for the passengers. Marek refers to this on the frontpage in fact.
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
#7
Hold on there guys and gals.
I think what the Boss has captured there is what is known as May water.
Every time at this time of year alga starts to form in the channel, also known as water bloom and the warmer the water gets the more of this you see.
The ferries churn up the water and this is the result, in some corners of the harbour it looks all frothy and mucky.
Nothing to worry about I don't think.
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
#8
Howard,
I think the problem is that "the bathing water in dover continually gets passed"!!
The seafront, as Paul says, is an attractive vista but belies the third world waiting for you on the other side of the subway. I saw a couple of tourists walking by the Charlton Centre yesterday and wondered what their impression of the town could be.
I wonder also what Kate O'Hara's view of the town is? Do we know what cruise passengers want from their ports and is anyone co-ordinating this for the town or do we just assume they will travel to Canterbury and London and let them go?
Guest 659- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 331
#9
Dover doesn't apply for blue flag status
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
#10
So to summarise, Dover hasn't been awarded a status to which it has never applied for, the waters are EU quality suitable for bathing and the brown film in very select places on top is perfectly natural algae. On top of that, the waters are used regularly for professional sports swimming and yachting.
Sounds like a non-story to me!
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#11
Well I think we all know why we dont apply for Blue Flag status dont we!?
But clearly the quality of the water along the coast here has deteriorated in a big way. Six Blue Flags from the coastal towns eastwards of here have all had their Blue Flags taken away. That surely is significant. We mustnt dismiss information like this as it is clearly an indication that pollution is getting worse.
As for the algae..it may or may not be algae..it looks to the casual observer to be a rather mysterious looking sludge of unknown origin, would you put your kids in it?/ I will be waiting with my camera when Phil comes down in his boxers and takes a dip in it.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#12
I have just listened to one of the backpacking,eco friendly,sandal wearing lonely planet reporters on Jersey radio. He claimed they write it as they see it. Blackpool was described as tasteless tacky and tawdry (as if we needed to buy the book to realise that).
The trouble is that the Lonely Planet is read worldwide and places like Dover have no recourse,if they say it's crap then the readers believe it regardless of how much Dover disagree.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#13
they could have said a lot worse about dover, as said above blackpool got slaughtered but 16 million people visit every year.
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
#14
That's probably because Blackpool is firmly etched in the nation's mind as a destination resort. It's tackiness is also now part of its charm. Dover, on the other hand, doesn't present itself as anything but a gateway in and out of the country even though all of us who post on here and care about the town know it is overflowing with heritage and surrounded by natural beauty; features that people travel the world to see.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#15
Putting Dover on the map as a quality tourist destination will be one of the Peoples Port Trust's top priorities once we gain control.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#16
I'M glad that Peter and his party if they ever get the peoples [port through there govt, will put Dover on the map.
1; firstly they have to win the argument with govt, to achieve there aims(i dont think DHB is going to just sit back and lose its control)
2; the govt also has to be convinced that it wont get a bigger return by sticking
with DHB
3; What is it that the peoples port has in mind to tart up Dover, does needs costing as already the figures just to actually take over the port don't add up
so wheres all this extra money going to come from?
It's all grand ideas, but costing need to be in place, and the unanswered questions.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
#17
I must admit, on a hunch I had always just presumed the waters in the harbour would be unpleasant due to the amount of shipping, but, a casual bit of research tells quite the opposite story.
The Marine Conservation Society has Dover Harbour beach listed as Recommended on their Good Beach Guide, and both DDC and DHB (yeah, I know) report on water quality is very good.
The Blue Flag status, which would cost £800 just to apply for let alone undertaking actions arising to achieve status, is not based on water quality alone, but encompasses beach facilities, toilets, refuse disposal and other factors. It is with some of these that Dover may fail, hence possibly the reason no application has been submitted. For example, provision of lifeguards is a mandatory requirement.
In fact the guidelines as to water 'toxicity', i.e. for the whole of 2010 the number of faecal particles per set volume of water is well within the Bathing Directive Standards guidelines, and registers very well. (No figures available for 2011 yet). Dover would not therefore fail to qualify for a Blue Flag on water quality alone.
If anyone really would like to know what criteria qualifies for the Blue Flag, and form their own conclusions as to why Dover would not achieve it, check the link:
http://www.keepbritaintidy.org/Programmes/Beaches/BlueFlag/EnglishCriteria/Default.aspxhoward mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#18
it appears that the coves from defra do the tests.
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
#19
The muck on the water is certainly nothing to do with shipping. Any ship discharging anything into the water is subject to massive fines and personnel are liable for imprisonment. The seasonal algal bloom causing it is equally evident over in Dunkerque. It is stirred up by the ships propellers and thrusters and by the local dredgers.
Regarding Keith's query in #16: "What is it that the peoples port has in mind to tart up Dover, does needs costing as already the figures just to actually take over the port don't add up so wheres all this extra money going to come from?"
My understanding is that the People's Port has offered the government a derisory £200m for the port (or half a Nimrod in the new currency). The government requires that an additional £200m is obtained as "working capital". Goodness knows what this is for as the port pays its way from the operating profits, has a cash reserve of £70m, and has an £85m continuing improvement plan in place for the next few years.
This basically leaves £200m of debt to play with of which they propose to allocate £50m to the town of Dover. As they have been at pains to point out, this is entirely debt with no equity apart from the miniscule amount raised in Dover Bonds. In the unlikely event that this amounted to £4m it would be 1% of the total £400m debt with the other 99%+ being borrowed from financial institutions, enabling the charade to be described as communitisation rather than privatisation and saving Charlie's blushes.
I am sure that our financial experts will correct me if I am wrong but giving the people of Dover a gift of £50m of debt seems rather like me going to my nephew's bank and taking out a £50 overdraft on his account and giving it to him as a Christmas present.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#20
ED
You paint a rather gloomy picture of the peoples port proposals,
although sme of us posters on herre have been trying to get these same answers it's nice for a bit of honesty.
I'm sure everyone would love the concept of a commuity run port, but in reality it's not so easy.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
