howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#1
courtesy of the independent, the poll figures are from poliics home.
A total of 59 per cent of voters agree that 'deep down, the Conservatives want to fully privatise the NHS', while 45 per cent think any reforms to the Health Service made by the Tories are designed to 'help business, not patients'.
The Prime Minister's five pledges are designed to assuage these fears, but leave the door open to changes.
He vowed that waiting times would not go out of control - a tacit admission that they are rising and will continue to do so.
He added that there is too much difference in quality of care in different regions.
Critics will also point out that the notion of a 'national' Health Service is likely to be watered down when GP commissioning gets under way, as it is likely to lead to a postcode lottery with different health outcomes in different parts of the country.
Mr Cameron's speech is part of a month-long PR campaign designed to salvage reforms drawn up by the embattled Health Secretary Andrew Lansley, which have faced massive opposition from the general public, health professionals and Liberal Democrat MPs.
Today, the Prime Minister said his campaign is beginning to bear fruit.
'A whole range of people are changing their view,' he will say.
'Before the pause, many were claiming the NHS is fine, and telling us not to touch it. Now, whatever their views about how to do it, most agree change is needed.
'What's more, a significant number are now more clearly on board with the thrust of what we are proposing.'
The Prime Minister said that GPs representing 1,100 practices across England have expressed support 'for the basis of our plans', along with the Association of Surgeons of Great Britain and Ireland and the Royal College of Surgeons.
He added that patients' groups such as Saga and Age UK have also 'backed key parts of our plans'.
The Prime Minister is due to unveil details of the changes to the Coalition's health plans next week after halting the passage of legislation to consult doctors.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#2
I think I heard in passing yesterday Adam Boulton of Sky News saying this whole reform package is in such a mess that "the prime minister should drop it like a hot brick"
It is a muddle. Nobody understands whats going on. On BBC2's Newsnight last night two medical experts couldnt follow it...but two coalition politicians, one of them Nick Cleggs mouthpiece Norman Lamb, prefessed to understand it all but didnt convince inquisitor Paxman.
A lot of headscratching went on..and this is Newsnight. if they cant follow it.. and the people in the NHS cant follow it, then what hope for the rest of us. Andrew Lansley who got us to where we are today, may well be hurled into the long grass in the not too distant future.
The people are very wary of politicans giving pledges now.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#3
it is turning into a dog's breakfast now, as i see it there is a lot of backtracking.
the thing i find most confusing is that dave still wants private sector involvement but says they will not allowed to cherry pick.
surely no health care provider would be interested in the complicated stuff with a chance of zero return?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#4
How I wish people would engage in a sensible and more open minded debate on the provision of health services.
What is important is the quality of provision and the availablility of that provision to all not who provides it.
Sadly I do not think that such a debate will happen. The NHS myths are all consuming. As long at the organisation has such a staus we will never get the better health care we deserve and it will always struggle.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
#5
All I can say about this is,I could not have got better care than I have just had even if I had made a lot of money for it,it was 110% and I still think we have the best there is.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#6
we cannot have a sensible debate about health service provision until andrew lansley make a decision on what he wants.
he keeps changing things, and as stated above even the experts are confused.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#7
This post came in via frontpage....
Name: Reg Hansell
Location: Shepherdswell
Posted: 8 June 2011 at 11:10am
Comment: NHS..Privatisation. Mr Camerons``Back me or Fire me ``
Mr.Cameron`s `five pledges`and invite to the public to `back me or sack me`at the next general election,if he does not protect our NHS from privatisation is a delayed opportunity to risky to entertain.In four years the damage will be beyond repair.Private companies and big business would have entered the market and would have cherry picked a large segment of the service..Privatisation does not work in the favour of patients in Health or Care Homes.
It is a gamble we can not take.......Health must not be a William Hill venture.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#8
The King's Fund says that waiting times are going up and the Nuffield Trust says that health funding is being cut in real terms. ''The NHS is safe in Tory hands'' do me a favour.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#9
We have seen the lib dems fall apart,
we will now see on the N.H.S. the tories to become unpopular
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 711- Registered: 1 Mar 2011
- Posts: 194
#10
Agree with you totally BarryW.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#11
Vic - no the NHS is very far from being the best there is. That is not to say that much of the treatment is not good and is not to denegrate the people working the system. It is the system that is no good - in fact it does not stand up to what is delivered in healthcare outcomes in most EU countries. I have said it before, nobody in Germany would want to swap their system for ours.
This rigid myth about how good the NHS is, is preventing us from getting the much better health system we all deserve. Politicans and that includes Conservative ones, have to pray to the great god NHS for fear of losing votes. That is so sad and prevents improvements to the system. Too many people are just so close minded about the NHS and will not condone any radical thinking abouit it. This is very unhealthy. if you were really as open minded as you regularly claim Keith you would question whether we should get rid of the NHS, as I did a while back. In my assessment it fell a long way short of what people in this country need and deserve.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#12
I Am baz(your the blinkered one)
As you say the N.H.S., is not perfect, and no one is saying it is.
The fear is the tories don't realy believe in it, and would prefer it run privately, and those that can';t afford it, hard luck.
I'm afraid i cant share that view
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
#13
You are wrong Barry, partys use the N.H.S as political stool just trying to score points over each other, I have been in Hospital both in Germany and France and they are good but no better then what we have and you have to paymore for Them,
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#14
with you there vic, the n.h.s. is political football much like education.
at the end of the day both turn out to be vote losers.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
#15
Just keep the goal posts in the same place for a few years. Thank you Howard for your support on this one.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#16
there are ways of making saving and improving efficiency that don't need politicians just health top brass to earn their money.
when i had reason to have a colonoscopy, i had an appointment with a consultant that explained what it was all about, was given a leaflet that answered any possible questions, a few weeks later i had a consultation with a specialist nurse for an hour that went over the same things.
i was then sent a letter telling me how to prepare for the procedure telling me yet again all about it.
when i arrived at the hospital a nurse took me throught it all again, when i went in to the room the technician then went over the same rigmarole.
the truth is i did not even need telling once, i watched a video of it on the internet.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#17
This illustrates the point I am making from you Howard, Vic and Keith.
No change is the message, do not consider any radical solutions like full privatisation because it will be a vote loser. That is right it would be a vote loser - this is what is so sad that no-one dare suggest a means to improve health care through the kind of radical change that is needed and as a result we are stuck with a second rate system.
I have said before I believe that an insurance based service will provide a much better set of outcomes for all of us. I gave some more detailed reasoning in a blog recently. I can only speak that view freely because I am not seeking public office. Vic, old mate you are just repeating the old out-of-date brainwashing that we all been exposed to on the subject.
Thanks Sue for your support. If we are not free to critisise the NHS and to suggest alternatives without groundless scare stories then it will never improve. I repeat at the end of the day it is access to healthcare and outcomes that are important - by whom it is delivered is totally unimportant and that is simply what my message is.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#18
barry
as you know a private companies first duty is to its shareholders, therefore they will be looking for standard procedures and operations that are quick and profitable.
the long drawn out treatments that have possible complications no company would bid for.
i don't think anyone is saying "no change", in any business a rethink on how it is run takes place at intervals.
bern works for the health service and has confirmed what many of us think excellent in places but deadwood remains.
my conclusion is still that it is not something that needs a drastic change just a general improvement, that can be done by someone in a position of power at each hospital or health trust.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#19
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
#20
Wrong again Barry,I am a member of the East Kent University Hosoital Trust and Also My wife and myself run the Kent Splenectomy Trust and have done so for some 13years now and as you know I have just come out of Hospital which I say again I was very well looked after by all the staff. No Brainwashing as you put it just facts and only facts mate.