Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
1 February 2009
11:2014458#1
I have read much of the recent e-mail from Dover District Council concerning the LDF and the whole issue continues to make my blood boil.
DDC is behaving like an arrogant Stalinist clique in trying to turn Whitfield into a New Town.
They should remember that they are democratically elected public servants and as such have to listen to the will of the people.
They are not there to farm council tax payers, which is it seems to me the main point of the development.
Whitfield has spoken with one voice and it is a resounding "no". Moreover, Tory candidate Charlie Elphicke supports them.
I have been accused of being "aggressive" - well I would say that to use the machinery of the British state to bully a whole community, which very much feels under attack, to cause a great deal of stress and worry even now, to destroy their quality of life, to cause much more traffic, noise, pollution etc. is extremely aggressive.
It is as well that there are activists such as myself around to hold the council to account.
It's called democracy - the cause for which the UK endlessly asks its armed forces to give their lives.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
1 February 2009
11:5314459#2
If we (Dover) didn't get "Growth-Point" status, we couldn't have got the inward investment we have. We also wouldn't be able to push Dover up the table with the RTB to improve our chance of getting the A2 dualled.
Being declared a Growth Point Town, has enabled us to apply and push for so much more, than if we hadn't got it.
Does Dover stay as it is, or move forward ?
There has been much consultation on this too and obviously it is up to the public to participate in those consultations if they wish to - like the saying, "you can take the horse to water" (telling everyone about the discussions/consultations), "but you can't make it drink" (public participation).
Roger
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
1 February 2009
11:5814460#3
Very interesting post Andrew. I understand the frustration people must be feeling up there in Whitfield. To be faced with an influx of urbanisation is a horrible prospect.
So although I am in harmony with you there as I myself have stated in the past I deplore the prospect of Dover turning into a kind of 'new town'...a sort of Milton Keynes by the sea. Anyone ever been to Milton Keynes? I have.
But let me act as Devil's Advocate for a minute on behalf of the DDC. Wasn't it a dictum from central government that something like 30,000 homes have to be built in the region. Dover and I suppose primarily Whitfield has been earmarked for 14,000 as I understand it. Judging by what Paul Watkins said in the past they (the DDC) see this as a route to prosperity. People coming to live here needing more jobs, needing more shops, needing more schools, needing more infrastructure and no doubt all paid for by central government. All these new homes with 30,000 or 40,000 inhabitants will spend money shopping in Dover, will have enough spending power to warrant bowling alleys and cinemas opening.
Of course Im not a spokesperson for DDC but I reckon something akin to the above would be their spin on it.
The downside is that the character of Dover will change forever. Green fields turning into housing estates, and Whitfield destroyed as the residents know and love it and so on.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
1 February 2009
12:0014461#4
Not everybody is against 'Whitfield New Town Andrew. My Wife and I live in a particularly nice part but are not against future development. There is a real need for social housing and it has to be built somewhere.
To call Whitifleld a village is incorrect, it has over the years become a suburb of Dover, much like River and Temple Ewell and shares very little community spirit unlike say Guston or St. Margarets.
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
1 February 2009
12:4714463#5
I am not against a more limited development at Whitfield either, Dave1.
You could call Whitfield a suburb or a village but the reality is that many places still have a very rural aspect which is about to be destroyed. I am also mystfield as to why some people appear to place so little value on the countryside and treat it as if it was an infinite resource.
We live in the most crowded region of the most crowded country in Europe (an overpopulated region in itself). So what do we do? Stick millions more houses in it. Madness.
I voted for PW at the last election because his party had the cojones to stand up and tell the truth about immigration, i.e that there has been too much of it. So now I have to see my favourite places for rest and recreation being desecrated to accommodate all these people who should never have been allowed here in the first place. Sorry but it's the truth and I will not tiptoe round it, even if most people are too cowed and scared to say it.
The whole situation totally sickens me.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
1 February 2009
13:5814465#6
i thought that the council did not have a choice about extra housing being built?
central government has ordered new housing to be constructed in kent.
some of the other comments in this thread rang true about the demand from dovorians for leisure and shopping facilities, usually the same people are against more housing.
a bit of a vicious circle here.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
1 February 2009
14:1214466#7
It is also fully supported by Roger(see postings) and PW
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
1 February 2009
16:1414470#8
In order to attract investment into Dover, which will in the medium to long term create jobs and reverse the decline in local retail, the district needs to obtain Growth Point status, this can only be obtained through a combination of proposals one of which is increased housing.
I am no supporter of either the current political administration nor the officer hierarchy at the DDC, however in their support they did engage in significant public consultation over their alternative proposals, all options included the utilisation of brownfield sites within the town and district as well as places such as Connaught Barracks. It is also worth noting that they did not opt for the option providing the maximum level of housing as this was felt to be too intrusive on areas such as Whitfield. Whilst on the subject of housing growth it is worth remembering that a significant number of new homes are also proposed for Aylesham. The only alternative for the number of homes proposed and approved by the council would be to build a completely new town within the district and this clearly is an even worse intrusion on the countryside than the extant proposals.
It is incumbent on all of us who are interested in the future of the town and district to make sure that all future developments including those currently on the table are factored into the provision of schools, doctors surgeries, civic amenities, open/recreational spaces etc.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
1 February 2009
16:5814472#9
I think we are all very upset with what has happen to our town over the years and look to see hwo we can blame for it, and what party Reds, blues, councils E,T,C, but having been in Dover all my live and that is 67years yes there have been alot of mistakes made and bad management, and the change of sea sides Town aswell, but that is all in the pass it is today and the next ten years we are looking at, and still there is far tomuch talking of what is going to happen and the changes that are going to be done, (So what you might be saying that must be good".
i also say yes to that But have we not been told that for the pass five years and what has happen,
i am sorry to say we are still going backwards, the town is even not so good as it was five years ago, so please if there is not going to be any improvements now, I say to the council do stop talking about them all you doing is driving in the wedge beween you and the public, if you can not deliver what you said was going to be done then please just tell the true story or say nothing
.
Vic Matcham
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
1 February 2009
19:0214480#10
Why do you keep saying that Vic ? Dover's regeneration IS going ahead - if you want someone to grumble at, look at one or two of the landowners, that's where the delay is.
Thanks for that Keith - I am for growth, not necesaarily all at Whitfield perhaps, but we need the growth to benefit - what do you support ? stagnation or growth ? continuing with dead areas or regeneration ? you can't keep grumbling about other people's views but never put you own.
Roger
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
1 February 2009
19:1114482#11
ROGER, A ll I am saying where is all this regeneration? all I have see is afew very old buildings taken down and if you had left them in avery short they would have fallen down ,is the regeneration you are on about the fences they put up around where the old building was, sorry but what you see is what you see.
Vic M
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
1 February 2009
20:5214495#12
Roger
look around
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
1 February 2009
20:5514496#13
You can't miss some of it, It's been there for years.
And years to come.
IE. the old paper mill.
Ian...
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
1 February 2009
23:0214502#14
Sorry Roger but for the last 6 years that I have lived here, and no doubt for many years before that, all there has been is talk.
Oh they demolished the bus station - whoopie - now we have another piece of fenced off waste land.
For all their faults the DHB at least do what they say they will, in the last 6 years, new berths, new exit road from the eastern docks and new food halls - why can't the council have some of their vigour?
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
1 February 2009
23:5414504#15
6 years too, a lot of photocalls from councillors and hot air, although things are beginning to look promising, achievements no!!!!
not only the fault of the council, local businesses seem to have no go in them
we have special events and the shops and cafes close early , when the cruise customers arrive their is nothing to entice them.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
2 February 2009
08:4514516#16
I agree Ross, but the Harbour Board never have land-ownership issues as they only develop on their own land.
You can't make progress if there is land-ownership issues and that is the stumbling block just now, not DDC.
The Paper-Mill was not delayed by DDC, but by various bodies - SEEDA, Environment Agency, Developers etc.
I agree Howard that some local businesses don't help themselves at all, whether it's to do with welcoming cruise passengers - opening earlier for them, or later for events; taking various currencies (Euros/Dollars) and speaking European languages.
Roger
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 February 2009
09:3814522#17
It is very easy to knock as some are here but getting things done is a lot harder. I remember way back when I was on the Land Committee in 1983/84 we were told that there was a complex arrangement of land ownership/leases/underleases and so on in the area around Russell Street and that it would take many years to unravel. The work started back then and was viewed as a very long term project. It is good to see that it has got as far as it has and work on demolition has started. The involvement of outside funding agencies in other parts of the regeneration scheme is another drag on the timescales.
To compare DHB and DDC is totally wrong and unfair for reasons Roger has mentioned. They have so much more commercial freedom. The development is under way, painfully slowly but it is happening.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
2 February 2009
09:5514524#18
Do you think that Dover is the only town which come with developments problems , wWhat about Canterbury, Ashford, Folkestone, Maidstone,and lots more, they all have them but get over them and move on, on it is not that, we have avery poor planning setup with the officers of it also runing it and sorryto say that we have Cllrs up there that let them get away with it.
Vic MATCHAM
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
2 February 2009
10:2314528#19
The comparison may ignore land ownership issues but sadly for most people perception is king.
I recognise that there are issues that all local authorities have to overcome that land owners like DHB do not have, however other towns appear to make speedier progress than we do and I find it hard to believe that they do not have similar problems to DDC. So how do they do it? Do they have more political will? Do they have a more focussed set of council officers? Have they got better relations with local, county and regional authorities and lending bodies?
Whatever it is we need to be seen to be making more than the current glacial progress
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
2 February 2009
11:0014529#20
Ross,If you read my post you can see we are talking on the same lines other Towns are moving on but Dover is at a stand still and that will stay the same till there is some big changes at D.D.C. in planning more than most depts,some depts are working well and they do help the public, but it is the planning dept,been the same for years and they are the ones and some heads need to roll to get Dover on the move.I must say that is the way things come over to me anyway,just look at all the one bedroom flats going up like the ones in Folkestone rd,
vic M
