howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
25 January 2010
22:2438796#1
the boss of KCC today has unveiled his vision of the future regarding public services.
paul carter is of the opinion that certain health matters such as PCT's and police services should come under the umbrella of county control.
sounds very american at first glance, however the savings made by the axing of quangos would seriously impact on our council tax bills and would give more accountability.
i must admit that i like the sound of it, what do the brains trust here on the forum think?
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
25 January 2010
22:3138799#2
If you like the sound of it Howard, it must be good, so I`m for it. Incidently, I haven`t heard the Brains Trust mentioned for many years. On the light programme wasn`t it?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
25 January 2010
22:3738802#3
thought i would not get a reply on this.
least of all from you colin, knowing your dislike of politics.
we do have a brains trust here, all sorts of people, all differing opinions, different beliefs, have a think about it and add your bit to the debate.
incidentally, for all those people, like me, that hate all those initials designed to confuse us, "PCT" is the health body that is supposed to look after us at the first port of call, such as the doctors surgery.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
25 January 2010
23:1638815#4
You mean Paul Carter`s Thurgery Howard?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
25 January 2010
23:4938820#5
Good Lord, given KCC's overall performance including the icelandic bank fiasco the last thing we need is them running our primary care trusts or police services
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
25 January 2010
23:5438821#6
overall they have had good ratings for their performance over a number of years.
don't forget they are more answerable than an unelected body who the average person does not know of.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
26 January 2010
00:0338822#7
Are they really?
Do I need to remind you of the toilet fiasco?
There are ways to make the PCTs, police, fire service etc democratically accountable without putting more power into the hands of the likes of Carter
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
26 January 2010
00:0638823#8
ross
the water closets are nothing to do with the county body.
the district council are responsible for the local fiasco and they are being hammered left right and centre.
pcts and the like are exempt because noone knows who they are.
look at the hospital situation.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
26 January 2010
23:0338875#9
Howard, you never struck me as naive or disingenuous.
The toilet fiasco is an example of incompetence, double dealing and duplicity in local government; as was the £50m deposited in Icelandic banks.
The other bodies all have governing bodies that must by law have local representation on them, currently most local authorities divi these up with their chums, however it does not need to be so...
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
27 January 2010
08:4938884#10
Ross - you are associating different issues. The Iceland Bank matter was discussed in detail at the time and you surely must remember that it was nothing to do with Local Authority incompetence (or duplicity or double dealing come to that). Even many IFAs due diligence a month before the crash showed up adequate financial strength for those banks reported by rating agencies.
As for the rest. I may not have gone about the loo issue in this way myself, but I think you would have a hard job showing any kind of incompetence there. Differing opinions, a clash of priorities between two local authorities maybe, bad tactics perhaps, but not incompetence.
Calm down now!
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
27 January 2010
09:1438885#11
Barryw
purely on the loo's pleasing to hear you would NOT have gone about this the same way as that man.
I just hope it can be resolved to most peoples satisfaction
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
27 January 2010
09:2638886#12
'That man' I am not pointing any fingers here Keith and would not do so as I do not have any inside information as to how the decision was made.
yes, I agree lets hope a satisfactory solution can be found.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
27 January 2010
11:1438887#13
"I may not have gone about the loo issue in this way myself, but I think you would have a hard job showing any kind of incompetence there."
No, Barry, no. I think it's one of the easier tasks to come out of this toilets fiasco to prove incompetence on a gargantuan scale. Why Nigel hasn't resigned over it is one question that needs a decent answer; why his party haven't done something about it themselves is another. It goes to prove the contempt the Tories have for local needs. Its disgusting.
True friends stab you in the front.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
27 January 2010
11:3138892#14
Andy - do get a sense of perspective, you speak as if its the end of the world. Open your eyes there are more important matters out there to get so wound up about.
For one thing this is not a party matter and is not something the local Conservative Party as such should involve itself in. This is a matter for those elected by the public and who will answer to the public at the local elections.
I am utterly disgusted by those who are set on pinning blame entirely on Nigel. This is where there is political spite and motivation, nowhere else.
I may disagree with what has been done and would not have done it the same way, I was after all for 5 years the Chairman of the Committee responsible for the loos, (equivalent of Nigel's Cabinet position). In my time we did close some but opened others (including the Stembrook ones). I am quite sure that this closure was not done lightly and was certainly not a matter decided alone by Nigel.
I am sure that a resolution will be found.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
27 January 2010
13:0438897#15
I, too, hope a resolution will be found, Barry. I don't propose to answer all your points one by one as too much on this toilets thing has already been said and it belongs on another thread, but I do think that Nigel should carry the blame for what has happened, and your accusations of political spite and motivation are profoundly untrue, as you well know. You have seen me at so many Conservative functions that you know where my allegiances lie; Nigel closed the toilets, seemingly off his own back. Thus he carries the repercussions for a flawed decision, irrespective of what party he happens to be a member of.
I appreciate that you say you would have done things differently, and I believe you, but this town has been made to suffer through an appalling decision that borders on a breach of trust, and I hold Cllr Collor entirely responsible. That, from a Conservative follower - no political motivation whatsoever.
True friends stab you in the front.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
27 January 2010
13:1838900#16
The political spite, Andy, that I referred to is from elsewhere.
I am certain that Nigel did not decide alone (and have been told that privately by those in the know). Yes, as the Cabinet member holding that portfolio he has the responsibility, but that does not excuse some of what has been said about him. This is not as straightforward as some of his critics suggest. No-one, as you are aware, is more committed to Dover than Nigel.
DDC are in very difficult financial straights due to Government funding issues and do not have a lot of room to manouvre. What they were trying to achieve, in principal, makes perfect sense to me, devolving responsibility for loos to parish and Towns, who do not get capped. How we got to the present position is another matter and, I agree, it does not do anyone any credit.
30 January 2010
20:1739168#17
Returning to Howard's orignal posting, I would rather the Leader of KCC consider getting rid of the single biggest quango in the County, and that is KCC itself. Removal of this inefficient and largely unaccountable body will wipe huge sums off our council tax bills, "at a stroke".
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
30 January 2010
20:5339170#18
at least they are accountable sid, for example our nigel is always available for advice.
with groups like SEEDA, dover pride and others, we have no comeback.
from what i gather KCC are one of the most efficient county councils in the country.
that is not to say that improvements cannot be made, the problem is we are one of the larger counties,much more difficult to control.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
30 January 2010
21:0739172#19
Wont mention how unnacountable that bloke is(remember the toilets?)
So yep 3 councils to many
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
30 January 2010
23:2239184#20
keith
if we have 3 councils too many and we followed your advice we would have no councils.
do you see yourself as the new dictator here in deepest dover?