howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
"The reforms, the legal profession has said, will hit society's most vulnerable, deprived and socially excluded, creating a system more focused on profit than quality"
Mr Turner said there were better ways of making savings to the legal budget, one of them being to ensure that banks were obliged to insure themselves against fraud and the cost of prosecutions.
Shouldn't acting in a decent honest manner, be included in that statement?
Speaking to The Independent, he said: "About 45 per cent of the criminal legal aid budget of £1.1 billion is spent on these fraud cases."
Here we go again. we know where we can save £1.1 billion but no, lets hit the vulnerable while their on the floor, another nail in the coffin wont hurt.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Absolutely Outrageous,unacceptable,obscene,.....................they know how to rub salt in joe public's wounds
..........they really are taking the p..s....................
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i always thought legal aid was restricted to members of the public on low income, not businesses in any shape or form.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Courtesy Independent..........
Hundreds of millions from legal aid budget helps banks defend fraud cases
The poorest and most vulnerable people in society are being hit by cuts to the legal system while the
government bankrolls the wealthiest, a senior QC said today.
The taxpayer is forced to foot a bill mounting up to hundreds of millions to deal with bank fraud cases
each year while the Ministry of Justice is pushing through a £220 million annual cut to the criminal legal
aid bill, said Michael Turner QC, chairman of the Criminal Bar Association.
Barristers and solicitors have joined forces in recent months to protest vehemently against the proposed
cuts, which they describe as a "devastating" attack on the justice system.
The Ministry of Justice recently closed its consultation period on proposals that will see defendants
deprived of the right to choose their lawyer, criminal legal aid contracts awarded through price
competitive tendering and the number of firms reduced from 1,400 to 400. The reforms, the legal
profession has said, will hit society's most vulnerable, deprived and socially excluded, creating a system
more focused on profit than quality.
Speaking before MPs on the justice select committee today, Mr Turner said there were better ways of
making savings to the legal budget, one of them being to ensure that banks were obliged to insure
themselves against fraud and the cost of prosecutions.
Speaking to The Independent, he said: "About 45 per cent of the criminal legal aid budget of £1.1 billion
is spent on these fraud cases."
"The state pays for the investigation by the police and the state prosecutes at the expense of the tax
payer," said Mr Turner, pointing out that the higher burden of proof required in a criminal court then made
it simpler for a bank to prove a civil case.
"If they never recover that money, the banks are entitled to write off the fraud loss against tax.
"That is why banks have absolutely no interest in putting in systems which prevent fraud taking place.
They should have to carry insurance to protect the public from paying out if they get defrauded," he added.
MoJ figures acknowledged that 90 per cent of the criminal legal aid spend goes on one per cent of
"high value" cases, Mr Turner said. These include terrorist, money laundering and fraud trials, including
those affecting banks.
The legal aid budget not only covers the prosecution but also the defence in cases where the
defendant's assets are frozen. Breaking down the figures, he estimated that just under half of the
criminal legal aid bill went on banking fraud. This did not include, he added, tax payers' money
spent on the investigation or writing off the loss against tax.
"The poorest in society cannot afford half a million for lobby groups which can grease the palms of those
in power but of course the banking industry can. That is a scandal.
"The private sector is creaming off public funds that should be there for the benefit of the citizen, for the most
vulnerable," he said.
Last night banking sector sources said the industry already provided for dedicated police counter fraud
units and worked closely with government on dealing with the issue.
One insider added: "Not all fraud is banking fraud. You would have to have compulsory insurance
schemes for other sectors of industry. Are you going to privatise prosecutions for industry by
setting up a compulsory insurance scheme?"
The MoJ denied that bank fraud cases ate up almost half the budget, insisting that the cost to the
criminal legal aid bill was "considerably less".
A spokesman added: "At £2 billion a year we have one of the most expensive legal aid systems in the world
and must ensure we get bet value for every penny of taxpayers' money spent. We have just finished
consulting on a number of proposals to reform legal aid and are now carefully examining all the
responses, including alternative proposals for making savings.
"Quality, professional lawyers would still be available to anyone needing advice or charged with
a crime just as they are now."
Mr Turner told the justice committee yesterday that great savings could also be made by improving
a legal system that often sees court cases postponed due to inefficiencies such as prisoners not
being delivered or interpreters not arriving.
He continued: "The real sadness for us all is that we are not being listened to. There are huge savings
that could be made but (Justice secretary Chris) Mr Grayling won't even see me."
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Banks caused the worlds financial problems...joe public bailed them out with billions of pounds....but they still take
more.......when will this be corrected ?
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
Reg
It wasn't Joe public that bailed the banks out with billions of taxpayer's pounds,
It was the Labour government
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
this govt needs to decide does it want the throw this latest scandal out?
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Howard #4
"i always thought legal aid was restricted to members of the public on low income, not businesses in any shape or form"
I thought the same Howard, perhaps someone with knowledge could answer this question for us?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
Same here, businesses usually have insurance cover for legal work.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
From the 26th November 2012...
Rich crooks net vast legal aid sums
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20472186
From the 11th March 2012
One law for the rich, no law for the poor
"Equality before the law fails in an unequal society. Instead of one legal system, class-ridden Britain now has three. At the top, the barristers other lawyers most admire have escaped the constraints of the nation state and chase multimillion pound briefs from the global plutocracy. The downwardly mobile members of the squeezed middle find the costs of going to law cripple them. And at the bottom, the coalition has decided the rule of law no longer covers the poor..."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/11/roman-abramovichIgnorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Legal Aid is OK for bombers, we all wish them to get a fair trial and an unappealable conviction. Its the likes of the Maxwells (family of Bob who owned the Daily Mirror), Nadir and others that plead poverty while living high on the hog that something should be done about.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
another moss up of the mouse
who set out his agenda to stop all this
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
might have a U-turn then.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
number 74
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Keith #7
£1.1 billion legal aid given to banks to fight fraud cases.
Any views on that?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
Conservative and labour represent the banks and the rich multinationals, there true masters
They are equally dirty, from the laying on of tax doges, to the missus squandering of public funds.To enrich the rich
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
We are still waiting for response to Howards question below.
"i always thought legal aid was restricted to members of the public on low income, not businesses in any shape or form"?
This issue seems to be, being avoided for some reason?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
that's who it should only be for
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS