Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
#1
Knife and Gun related crimes amongst the young are fast becoming an every day occurrence, so just what is the answer.
Does it call for a political stance such as the Conservatives want in there being a prison sentence if caught with these weapons? Is it a parental problem or do we have to some how find a way to educate these youngsters that carrying such weapons will undoubtedly mean death, for at some time it will mean they will use them.
I can not for the life of me understand why the young have taken to carrying such weapons in this way and the ease at which they appear willing to use them; it is not exactly new I know, I remember the flick knife, the knuckle duster etc when I was young, what I do not remember is this total lack of respect for human life.
There surly should be a strong deterrent with sentence and judges should use the highest sentence available to them. However prevention has to be better than cure,
we also have to find a way to get through to these youngsters who carry weapons in the first place. They need to understand that weapons are not the answer that gang rivalry is not the answer and that human life has to be respected.
I do not know the answers, but I do think there should be a united front of all political parties and all sections of the communities to find a way to educate and deter these people from owning and carrying weapons.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#2
Like you Harry I dont pretend to know the answers to this current epidemic of knife crime..I dont think we have ever seen anything like it on this level before. There simply isnt the prison space to put all these criminals in jail though, or even to put general knife carriers in jail. If we were to put them in jail we would have to let other criminals out to make room for them...so I dont know which is worse, its between a rock and a hard place.
Some rubbish announced by the Home Secretary on the radio this morning about taking knife carriers to A & E wards to shock them into reality is laughable. It will make no difference to these low level brains.
Knifes of course are very readily available and its impossible to restrict their availability...politicians will no doubt come out with this 'lets restrict their availability' one but its not a goer.
Just comeback to make one other point...I definitely thought that the outrage shown from the public and the newspapers would have caused these knife wielders to check back because of the sheer heat. But no, on the contrary. The publicity has driven it forward...the criminals love the notoriety. So stabbings are up. Even in the roaring Chicago on the 1920's, big time mobsters tried to lay low after mass outrage...but not today.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
#3
TWO WORDS
STRICT
DISCIPLINE
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#4
I think its more about a whole range of things, its the way society has changed since the 90's Im careful not to blame one set of people, to me, there is never a good reason to carry a knife or gun, and the attacks in London and Sheffield are worrying.
It should be recognised that for many of these kids they come from backgrounds of both parents unemployed, they to are likely to be unemployed, society in general turned against them.
But you need to weigh this up against how society has changed
Maybe im getting old but i used to live i tower hamlets and we had little money, but we used to lay up the linces play cricket, or other sports, never got up to mschief to much.
Im all for looking after youths interests but i recall attending as a cllr(thank god i finished wif that) a youuth meeting i a run down area, I had to hav a go at 1 youth member who felt the world was against him, i asked him to do more to help himself, and together we would all achieve but i feel he only wanted someone else to do everything for him
well im afraid i said well unless you can show you want to help yourself im off.
There are to many do gooders who see no wrong in youth(or other ages come to that)
and that mindset need changing
then theres the teachers, very little power to control kids,
parents taken to court if they tell there own kids off
the list is endless.
We have a broken society, one that started in the 90's and has developed over time, we need to(but we never will)to relook at society in general, what can be done, who should be helped, who will/can hep themselves
that will only happen if the govt moves from sound bites and all major parties are just trying to please the latest public outcry at the mo.
Although locking people up may be an idea, wot about making people pay for the things they do
ie; cleaning the streets, doing up the elderly houses, cleaning up river dour? but made to do it, not mambe pamby stuff
it can happen if people had the will to do it.
Prison is not the answer to eveything, and there full anyway so we need to find alternatives that work.
prison should be a last resort.
blimey i was only gong to write a few words
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
#5
I have to say I like PaulB do not think prison is the answer as such, as our prisons are full. However may be "Boot Camps" are the answer out and out hard line discipline.
If a youngster is caught with a weapon or keep acting in an anti social manner then send them to a boot camp. Not the youth detention centres we have now but a military style boot camp run by retired service men and women in a military way and no I do not mean by bullies and bullying but by the sort of training one would expect in the Para's or Royal Marines.
Vic hit it on the head in two words Strict Discipline they obviously have not had that or they would not take the anti social route, so get caught give them just that, DISAPLINE.
#6
It depends on your definition of discipline. Whacking people about a bit would probably not achieve much apart from a bit of righteous self-satisfaction on the part of the whacker (and I can see the appeal there, honestly!)! But raising expectations, rewarding achievements, zero tolerance of poor behaviour - these are probably in the long term more effective. I have to reflect that there used to be an acceptance that Shame was ok, that if you did something shameful you felt shame - there seems to be no shame now, people do outrageously stupid, or offensive, or idiotic things and appear to feel no shame......in fact are rewarded for it. If you are a person who seeks publicity, a person who needs to be broadcast in order to feel validated, then think of the rewards available to party-seekers!! Girls who display their bodies, get drunk and "moon", guys who unashamedly brag about their exploits, people who do drugs and brag, or waltz off with a slapped wrist and a wallet full of OK and Hello money. These are the "norms" our young people are exposed to, and this, coupled with the other factors like homelessness, poverty and abuse, it is an explosive cocktail waiting for the match.
Guest 663- Registered: 20 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,136
#7
Sat this morning and read the Sunday papers its on every page, trouble is we created the society and culture then turn round and say why is it happening,we've taken disapline away
so what is the anwser.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
#8
Sorry Bern I have taken Military discipline as I know others have on the forum, but I do not remember ever being whacked about.
Getting up at 4 in the morning, running with a telegraph pole through mud and water, doing as I was dam well told without question yes and of course being shouted at face to face, but physical abuse no?
If its discipline they lack then its discipline they need and prison will not give them that.
As I first said I do not know the answers any more than any one else, I just think if they are under 25 then it is not too late to pump some discipline into them.
If of course they have been found guilty of actually using the knife or gun then prison probably is the only answer.
I just wonder how many more grieving parents we have to watch on T.V before these youngsters get the message that the gang and the knife & gun is not the answer.
#9
Harry, you are right - prison is not a place to teach discipline, and the tragedies are too many to ignore. The earlier people learn about self-discipline and restraint the better - it is harder to learn when you are older. Besides, isn't that what parents are for?! I guess we need to properly evaluate what we want to achieve - prison often only achieves further discontent and criminality. Having said that, it is sometimes the jolt a basically decent person needs to sort themselves out - I know a few people who have experienced prison as a way to move on. But they are few and far between.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#10
when i heard the news this morning about the stabbers visiting the stabbed in hospital, i was astounded.
the last person i would want see when writhing on a bed of pain, would have to be the toerag that did me carrying a bunch of grapes and a sudoku magazine.
the americans came up with the ides of taking young thugs to visit cons serving life in very unpleasant places.
the cons, to their credit, told them the evils of life inside, the youngsters were visibly frightened.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
#11
Two more grieving families today and the Home Secretary wants to take those caught with a knife to hospital to see victims in hospital.
Just what planet is she on? Apart from the victim them selves does she really think the families would want such people at the bed side. Wow she will be taking them into a room next to tell them how naughty they are.
If the Home secretary does not know it's time to get tough then we have no hope at all.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#12
harry
these people at the top live in a different world to the one that we inhabit.
that applies to all major political parties.
they do not have to put up with the stuff that the rest of us do.
i have never known a time when our masters have been so remote from us.
they usually appease us by passing a new law that will never be enacted in real life.
#13
Goody - a new law that will be as ineffectual as the rest and will make the legal system even more complex than it already is - what a boon. You are right - what planet are these people on, and how high will the next knee-jerk be?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#14
there was another silly one today bern.
hazel blears says that she will not take the culprits to A & E to see the victims.
instead they will be forced to do community work on friday and saturday nights.
we had 18 years of the blues, 11 years so far of the pale reds and nothing changes.
lots of statements, initiatives, new laws etc etc.
eventually the public that suffer the most will look to extreme parties to take action.
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
#15
Guest 667 wrote:Knife and Gun related crimes amongst the young are fast becoming an every day occurrence, so just what is the answer.
Posted
2008!
Here's an update on crime in London since then
https://fullfact.org/crime/what-happened-violent-crime-london-2008/
Here's a list of the 250+ murdered in London so far:-
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/london-violence-list-murder-victims-killed-in-the-capital-so-far-this-year/
Posted without comment.
"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,095
#16
Gardening implement relieved to be found not guilty.
A machete spoke today about the hurt it felt at being accused of being an offensive weapon. 'I'm so relieved', the machete said, 'I've had five months of this and it's made me really edgy. It's not as if I'm a knife or anything is it?' Thanking the jury, the machete said 'I just want to get back to some gardening. I'll have to find a new owner, though, when the police let me out of the evidence bag.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51235506'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
#17
Excellent! Deal's now getting stabby.
WTF is anyone in Deal doing at 02.30 wandering round with a blade?
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/deal/news/man-stabbed-in-town-centre-220878/"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
#18
Chef on his way home from work?
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
#19
Was at meeting with Lynn Owens and Cressida Dick last year. You ain't seen nothing yet!
Seriously very few people realise what is going on.
"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,109
#20
The brevity of that was worthy of Sue!
(Not my real name.)