Guest 656- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,262
Wecome to the Forum Jim, its good to have you on board. Hope to see you posting on other threads too, as will be interesting to hear your views on other subjects
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
Indeed it is all part of the fun, Peter.
Point-scoring and all.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
hopefully its not point scoring andrew.
just matters of opinion
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Welcome Jim.
Your wealth of historical knowledge will add something to many different threads, don't be shy.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
There are many Licences being dished out for future mining in Britain, sadly most of these licences are being taken up by foreign countries. We seem to be still following the same old routine by shutting one of our only a handful of pits that we have left, Daw Mill and throwing another 800 miners on the chat.
The Dysart Coal Mine Management Pty Limited has yet to state what method of mining they would choose to use in Kent but as Jim has already stated it will not be like mining of old.
I would guess that they would go for UCG, Underground Coal Gasification, which I have spoken about before. This could be land based or marine based but this application seems to be for land based mining operation, I would opt for the Oxney Bottom region, where the coal is at its thickest..
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
"Capital has a Home" is the subject of a Chapter in 23 things they don't tell yo about capitalism - i.e. that there is no such thing as a truly transnational company and that it is ultimately more advantageous for the workers if their company is native-owned.
Interesting that foreigners are queuing up to exploit our natutal resources that we have decided we don't need.
We should be looking to invest in a new clean coal industry.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Andrew.
UCG has been around since the early 1950's so it is not entirely new, I believe Russia used it for lamplights for many years and I don't think many people realise just how diverse coal actually is.
Below is a diagram of a Coal Tree, that we use in our mining education talks. Coal was and is still being used in 100's of products.
On the left is the English Version. On the right is the US Version
View | Delete
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
Interesting diagrams, Gary. I first heard of UCG in the early 1980s but didn't realise it was even older than that.
A friend who works in the industry which strips harmful gases out of power station emissions tells me that the UK has at times struggled to maintain supplies of high quality coal. China has been buying up much Australian output and forcing us to source supplies from Indonesia, not always of an ideal composition apparently. This has caused combustion problems at power stations.
Meanwhile we are of course reliant on imported gas, often from unstable parts of the world.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
This begins to explain a lot of things.
If Kent is sitting on enormous coal-fields, and in particular East Kent, then perhaps all urbanisation projects will be written off.
An entrance to coal fields under the sea-bed might be deemed suitable at Whitfield.
In this case I'd have to write an article: Kent, how coal prevailed over DDC
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
so many ideas to be explored st margaret's would be suitable as an entrance.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Alex.
"IF" does not come close, there ARE massive coal stocks throughout the UK, millions and millions of tons of it.
No drilling of boreholes necessary to establish existence, only location, depth and quality.
I was informed on Friday that we, UK, are running on 3 days of gas reserves.
Not protecting our coal reserves seems suicidal to me and I cannot apprehend what this Government is playing at.
After decimating our coal industry, are they willing to be the party to sell our future energy reserve's, simply out of pride?
Is Maggie's "No-UTurns" still in effect, for the Coal Industry in the UK?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Indeed Gary, and East Kent has known reserves of coal that are deeper than those of Sheffield. Plenty of these reserves are under the seabed and along Kent's coast, in particular in the Dover District area. This fact was established towards the end of the 19th century.
However, I can't see it being possible to extract coal without leaving heaps of debris about in the vicinity of the shaft entrances. Even if this coal-dust were to be replaced in the shafts once exploited, this would not come about before the same shafts were no longer in use.
So this could mean after many months or even years.
My point is, would it still be feasible to develop land in the Dover area for large-scale building, such as at Whitfield, if the same area became designated for coal mining? I doubt it. And let's be clear on this, no matter which technology one uses to mine coal, it cannot be done without leaving heaps of underground debris on the surface.
And no mining of coal beneath the seabed could be carried out without an entrance from the shore. This entrance could not be at sea-level, as underground water, and sea water, would flood the shafts. So the entrances would have to be at a higher level, such as, for example, at Whitfield.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Expect the NIMBYs to return in force if they ever do try to reopen the mines... !
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
I don't think anyone is suggesting a possible pit entrance at Whitfield, Alexander. If you look at a map it is about three miles inland - not ideal for accessing undersea reserves.
I don't think the discovery of gold around Whitfield would stop the DDC juggernaut's cherished back-to-front "economics" (shops promising to open if houses get built) - let alone coal.
Maybe we should stick it in your back yard.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Alex.
With UCG, there is no entrance, there is no shaft, not in the way you mean and there would be no spoil, or much employment come to that.
I have put this diagram on here several times, basically, they set fire to the coal, capture the gas in the refinery and turn it into energy.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Would this UCG technology work for under-the-sea coal fields, Gary?
Andrew, I may not be too far off, because about one century ago shafts were dug at close to sea level near Dover to mine coal, but water kept flooding in from beneath the seabed, and the project was given up.
If we're talking of extracting coal from under the sea, my guess is that facilities will have to be based on land, and not too close to the shore.
Gary's UCG system would also require a huge facilities on land, as I doubt they'd place all these things described in the above diagramme on a rig out at sea.
So perhaps there may still be hope yet.
After all, growth points status would seem superfluous if Dover District suddenly became the centre of attraction for large-scale coal exploitation.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Alexander - at the same time they started a Channel Tunnel or two and baerly got under the water !!! Technology has changed
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
I realise this, Paul. But that still doesn't answer the question as to where all the facilities would go that are necessary for coal mining. Surely not on the seabed?
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
A mine was actually dug about a mile from Whiitfield, Alexander - Guilford Colliery - but I believe it flooded in 1920 and was abandoned before producing any coal commercially. It even had a light railway linking it with the Dover-Victoria line via Shepherdswell. You can buy prints of a picture of the mine at the street markets held around Eaat Kent and I have one myself. The winding house is still there - converted to flats ow.
I understand that the Earl of Gullford wasn't keen on mines in Waldershare Park so this pit was placed right on the park's boundary, next to the lane between Whitfield and Coldred. Timanstone Colliery was of course on the opposite side of the patk, a couple of miles away.
For that matter there was another mine at Lydden - Stonehall - also not a commercial success. I think there were eight Kent mines in all - the aforementioned Shakespeare Colliery at Dover, plus Guilford and Stonehall and the four closed former NCB pits, plus an incipient one at Wingham,- perhaps Gary C can confirm this.
Then there were plans to build a massive steelworks near Dover in the 1930s - so this area narrowly missed out, for better or worse, on becoming a major heavy industrial zone.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
There is a brief summary of Kent Coal here:
http://www.kurg.org.uk/sites/coal.htm
A lot of the technological drawbacks 90-100 years are probably insignificant these days so i could imagine that they could even utilites Snowdown for all the facilities...
Been nice knowing you :)
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
