Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Kenneth clarke who normally is very careful with his wording, has caused uproar with his off the cuff comment that there may be differing types of rape.
he has since backtracked, but there are concerns over what views he may hold
i think in th past ken has been the more sensible voice of the tories, but on this one he made a major gaff.
hope he survives
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Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
I think Ken was trying to expand on the various grey areas of rape but it didnt go down well. Everything must be black and white nowadays. Right from the off he was savaged all day long by almost everyone. Whether he had a point I wouldnt really like to say as I dont know enough about it, but unfortunately some of the things said smacked more of cost cutting then anything to do with justice...thats the problem when your first priority is cutting the budget.
I dont think he will survive Keef. He has been at odds with government thinking now in several areas so his days are numbered. It was also said on TV last night that he was too old for the job. Too old for the modern era.
Have deleted the other thread.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
There are different types of rape but it is his daft ideas about going easy on rapists that I find abhorrent but then I find his views on soft sentencing in general and the EU abhorent as well.
Clarke is past his sell by date and should go. A total waste of space no better than Huhne and Cable.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
paulb
kenneth has been at odds and im sure he will get a hard time on question time tonight.
my fear is that should kenneth get the push the tories will slide even more to the right.
kenneth does have a sensible voice, maybe at times differs from others
is he to old? i don't know if we took age into account and ability wouldnt leave many ministers/mp's
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i could see what he was trying to say but he hadn't really thought it through.
a really violent rapist is likely to get just 10 years, under kens thinking they would get 5 and in all probability be out in 2 and a half.
no justice for the victim, i agree that cost cutting is coming into this.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
The sensible voices are on the right Keith...
Tories slide to the right! I certainly hope so, this country needs it to deal with the problems of the EU, the Human Right industry and soft sentencing to mention just a few.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
barryw;
i think we have ha threas on this before today, we do need some answers;
1; if we are going to jail everyone who commits crime, prisons already overfull so must so all govts are releasing people early
2; if someone committing smaller crime is knowing he/she will be released early
what will happen then will they go on bigger crime
3; what do we do about the already crowded prisons
4; if we are not to jail more minor offences then what do we do instead to them
as if they get off scott free will send out wrong message
theres a starter for you barryw
on the tories lurch to the right, gawd blimey mate thats the worse thing that can happen.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i think we have gone over this many times keith, the main concensus of opinion is that non violent offenders should be made given stringent community work leaving the prisons free to house offenders that are a danger to the public.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
i don't disagree but thats not in place as yet
and whats a minor offence?
a minor offence to one person could be a major offence if its you as the victim
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Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Stringent community work - I think I'll add that to my list of favourite oxymorons.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
I will remind you of my views which may well appear to the right
so maybe im not a fluffy lefty lol
prisons should be a place everyone wants to avoid, prison should be little rights, hard work while you are inside. few hours leisure time(if you have worked hard enough)
more like a boot camp
blimey sounding like a tory lol
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Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Sounding like common sense !
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
keith
the answer to your question in post 9 is answered in post 8.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,885
I know I can only go by the information in the media, which has been known to exaggerate in the past
.
Prison seems to be almost like a holiday camp for some, television and a telephones being two things I just do not understand a prisoner having access to. Prisoners should earn this kind of privilege after a trouble free percentage of their sentence has been served.
With regard to rape, rape is rape regardless of whether the rapist is known to the victim or not it is just as traumatic. A man of Kenneth Clarke's experience should choose his words more carefully.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
The Old Tory stalwart was on Question Time last night, it came from the Scrubs, he backtracked and apologised about his statement on differing types of rape. He claimed that he was trying to explain the differences in the length of sentences given to rapists.
I don't want to enter the debate other than I always thought rape was rape. However what was noticeable that in todays politics he looked old and tired in comparison to th new boys on the block ie Mssrs Cameron,Clegg and Milliband.
Remember the days when the leaders looked old and wise..Chamberlain,Churchill,Wilson,Heath,Alec Douglas -Home not forgetting the hunting plusfour trousered, tweed wearing MacMillan.....
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Rape is a difficult issue and is by no means always a clear cut matter...
I think back to when I was a teenager and I will try to put this as delicately as possible... I and a young lady were getting very 'hot and bothered' in the back of a car and were in quite an advanced point in our activities, to put it delicately. Then she suddenly and unexpectedly at a crucial point said no. I took her at her word and backed off. She ended up screaming and shouting at me for stopping - I never met up with her again after that.
My point is that messages are easily misunderstood in these situations and no may not always be no. Please note - I do not regret taking no as no and that is always the best thing to do, but sometimes young ladies who play such games can make life hard for boys.... For this reason I always have a spot of distrust when I read of 'date-rape' as it may not have been as simple as that. Rape though, lets be clear, is a terrible crime that should not be trivialised.
Fact Ken messed up , with his use of words and the idea if a rapist pleads guilty he gets half the sentence . Fact the prisons are over full , surely he could and should have chose a different crime to use , i agree with Barry , im not sure why Ken is still in a job , is it because he is seen as a popular torie , one of the very few on earth .
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Ken Clarke is past his sell-by date. He should be dumped but his greatest sin is being so pro-EU.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
peter,being pro-eu isnt a sin its a blessing,with some forsight.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
just putting the EU to one side, k c does look old now and still sticks by his guns.
very unclear what his real view is as he keeps back tracking.
sadly looks like the right will be rid of k clarke and thats a danger for politics in general as we will see the tories lurch even more to the right.
not sure cameron would be happy or survive with that
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