Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
You are wrong Howard repeating an out and out Yes campaign lie about the election of the Conservative Leader, shame on you...
I have explained the whole process before in my blog a while ago.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Humphries usually does his homework a lot better than that but, I suspect, his personal political preferences sneaked out and led him into a trap accepting the Yes campaign misinformation without getting a proper briefing. Very amateurish and not what we would usually expect from him.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
accusing an individual or a group of telling lies shows that the accuser has lost the argument barry.
i don't know why you are so desperate, all the money has been spent on the "no" campaign, they will win easily.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Howard, Barry is right that Mr Cameron was not voted in using AV. But then he wasn't voted in through FPTP either.
I actually think the Conservative party have this right, with a fair system. The only problem is that it relies on successive votes, which would be very expensive (possibly resulting in defence cuts) The only way to get this concept down to a one ballot paper system would be by prioritising....oh..um...AV?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
you may be playing a game of semantics darren.
when mrs thatcher refused to go she elected for a second ballot to save her skin.
thankfully for the blues she lost.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Al this talk of yes/no and second, third...ballots. Are we discussing the EU referendum(s) they had in Ireland and elsewhere?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Howard - you are totally misrepresenting what happened with Mrs T - she did not elect for a second ballot, it was part of the process. In the first round which she won she was seriously damaged and her authority to lead would have raised questions if she went on and won in the subsequent ballot, so she stood down.
Howard - there is another reason for talking about lies, the simple fact that there has been a lie.
Darren the whole point is that there are different dynamics involved in an exhaustive ballot process to AV. With AV you cast the ballot once and pnly the second and subsequent preferences of those who voted for the candidates with the lowest number of votes get used.
With the exhaustive ballot (yes you are right, as equally unsuited for a general election as AV) all of the electorate get to vote in every round. That is very different.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
how many billions did the "no" campaign claim the counting machines would cost before they got shot down in flames?
if that is not a lie then nothing is.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Thats not a lie at all. The problem is that political messages get over simplified. Either an AV count will cost more due to buying counting machines or it will cost more because of the extra time the count takes. That is the core point - it costs a lot more to administer.
As for the cost - no doubt the campaign would have used the highest estimate, the most costly equipment and translate into that being purchased in every area while conversely it would be equally legitimate for the other side to use cheaper equipment as a cost basis and to assume that only a proportion of areas purchase it, conveniently ignoring the cost of extra time in the other areas. Neither would be lying and the actual costs would be somewhere between the two.
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
But the argument is lost in the barrage of claim and counter claim backed up by statistics to support each side which no-one can really make sense of. The loser is the electorate who are turned off by such an approach (which goes across all areas of life nowadays) and democracy as we see people choosing not to vote so allowing unrepresentative governments to get into power leading to further disenchantment.