Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#1
Well, from the Yorkshire ripper post, we now have another senario of British law in action, this time regarding one of those little bastards that murdered poor little 2 year old James Bulger back in 1992. Remember, the 2 young boys whe led him away while his mother was shopping in a Liverpool shopping precinct? They took him to that lonely place near a railway line and stoned him to death, then placed him on the railway line and he was cut in half by a train. Less than 10 years later, an American lawyer, took their case to Brussel`s if I remember correctly, and appealed that they didn`t recieve a fair trial. Anyway, they were given new identities, and released on parole. Guess what? One of them is back inside. All I`d like to say here is, don`t forget the other one.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#2
Too much leniency was given to them at the time because of their ages, but I believe that if you are old enough to do the crime (there was so much sick, sadistic things done to that little boy, those two knew what they were doing), you are old enough to do the time.
I'm not even sure there is/was an institution for them (then) - now there is prison of course as they are so much older. They must be in their mid 20s.
Roger
#3
I am a great believer in moving on once the time is done for the crime, but there are some events that are different. The lack of remorse and the sadism involved - and don't tell me that 10/11 year olds don't know right from wrong, my four would have known it was wrong at any age - give this crime a different edge.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
#4
The two murdering thugs should never have been released so early, if ever. Why we allow Europe to determine our criminal sentences is quite beyond belief.
True friends stab you in the front.
#5
Because we have a weak Government that doesn't stand up for or listen to its people, Andy
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#6
we are either sucking up to the states or the european bureaucrats.
nothing will change in the foreseeable future, nigel farage said we all thought about the belgian head honcho and got his wrist slapped.
the rest of our leaders are like lemmings, taking directives from brussels and joining in with the wars from washington.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
#7
How true Howard. We have a spineless Government that needs to represent the beliefs of the British people, not wheedle to our American and European paymasters.
Just seen the James Bulger piece on the lunchtime news - I can still remember the shock of reading the full story of Thompson & Venables after the guilty verdicts, in The Daily Torygraph the next day; I couldn't then, and I still can't now, understand what drove two young boys to such a catalogue of horror. Poor James Bulger died a truly horrific death, and my heart goes out to his family even now, 17 years after the event. Seldom have I ever been so shocked as I was at this story and I hope I never hear of anything similar ever again.
True friends stab you in the front.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#8
Whether he should or should not be released is immaterial.He was...end of story. However rumours are that he could have been taken back into custody due to his identity being released thus breaking a world wide reporting ban.
My thoughts are that he should have been given a life (means life) sentence.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
#9
Andy 'two murdering thugs'.
Two children at ten years old.
With the wrong background at the wrong time in the wrong circumstances I would suggest that all of us would have been capable of such crimes.
This is the what we all get worked up about, when it gets a bit TOO close to the way WE might have behaved in the same circumstances.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
#10
Sorry but even at this time I get so upset about it all, I can not write about it.
#11
Vic, Q.E.D.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
#12
Bob
Even at ten years old, a child knows that stoning a toddler to death after torturing him, then leaving his body for a train to cut in half is wrong. Yes, in my book, they were murdering little thugs and got off lightly with serving 8 years in a juvenile prison. I accept that this hard line stance is not politically correct, and that the poor wee things probably come from the wrong side of town, but even so there can be no defence for their actions; the whole episode is too ghastly for words, but being soft on this vile crime cannot be right.
I hear questions asked about why the anonymity of Jon Venables should be allowed now that he's broken his licence; the answer is that he would probably become the victim of lynch mob vengeance, and I don't go along with that, but I understand it nevertheless. I ask whether James Bulger's parents should have to endure reliving their nightmare all over again; had his murderers not been released from a sentence that ended up far too lenient, and outraged an entire city in the process, they wouldn't have to.
True friends stab you in the front.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#13
Though the lynch mob`s looked on as unsavoury, I wonder how many normal people would lose any sleep over Venables, Sutcliffe, or that bastard who murdered those 2 school girls a short while back, if they were found hanging from a tree down the road? I wonder how much help the police would get with their enquiries? Little or none I suspect. I wonder why?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
#14
Normal people? Who are they?
Let's look at the statistics. Roughly 50/60 kids killed each year since the 1930's. (In spite of hanging/not hanging).
On average 5/6 killed by non family members. Most kids get killed by the mother's live in lover.
The reason that Bulger, Mary Bell, Moors murders grab ones conscience is because they are unusual.
#15
Bob, you can stand up straight now and stop talking out of yer rear-end. (#9)
From a very, very early age I knew the consequences for committing murder were to get the neck stretched by a rather big rope. I sat up in the mornings with my parents and waited for the news to tell us that "so and so" went to the gallows at 6am (or whatever time) and has been executed for the murder of ......". The book closed, retribution and punishment doled out. Grieving victims family given a chance to move on. Murderers family time to live through a difficult period. No furhter victims, no further cost to tax payer to look after the undescribably evil.
AND, I might add, the fact that these two MONSTERS commited this heinous crime at such a young age makes them the EXCEPTION, never the rule. You can be sure 99.9999999999% of children of their age KNOW torture and murder is very wrong, whatever backgrounds they come from. To suggest we all ight have that in us at that age is, quite frankly, not worthy of you.
Maybe if we had a strong enough punishment as a deterrent, little Jamie Bulger might be enjoying adulthood now instead of rotting in a grave somewhere. But, then again, perhaps his kidnappers/torturers/killers should just be executed so he and his family finally get peace. If a volunteer is needed to do the deed I'll step forward along with several million others.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#16
well said Sid
#17
Sid,
I'm awfully pleased for you that you are so sure what you would/could do given the wrong circumstances.
Nazi Germany. Most us of would not have worked in the Death Camps. How many of us would have continued working on the railways that we knew were taking people there?
Pol Pot's Cambodia. Which side are you on. How long will you live?
Easy calls?
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#18
Bob
My Polish paternal uncle Jozef worked on the railways before after and during the war (too old to fight) and he had the unenviable and unknowingly the pleasure of transporting his brother,my other Uncle ,Henryk, to a concentration camp.
On a visit to Poland I asked Jozef "How he could work for the Germans". "We had no choice" he replied. They (Nazis) came to our house took away my yougest sister and shot her the next day they threatened to come for my mother...He last 8 siblings from 1939-45. My grandfather whom I never met was killed during the Warsaw uprising.
ps Henryk survived and made a new life for himself in America after the war but tracked his family ,my Dad etc, down in the late 60's.
It's all too easy for those of us that have not lived through it to condemn others actions.
Easy calls... as you rightly put it.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#19
emotive subject, i have to say that i agree with bob and marek on the subject of doing something evil to survive.
the concentration camps needed certain jews, gypsies, communists etc to keep the show going.
they had no shortage of volunteers.
#20
We can never know, really, how we would behave in a given circumstance. I won't bore you again with my old friend, long gone, who had to choose between her children in a camp, as a Jewish Mother who had nursing skills - her skills saved her and she was allowed to choose one of her children to survive. That is hard to comprehend.
A different situation to those two boys, and indeed the two boys recently who also committed barbarous acts on two younger boys. Children are weird creatures, their brains and emotions are not the same as adults and they need the space to develop and grow safely, and the opportunity to understand. However - when I think about my kids at 10 years of age, I know that they had an instinctive understanding that some things are not permitted and are indeed grotesque. They had had the opportunity to develop that intuition - some kids are not given that chance. But having breached that line between humanity and psychopathy it is hard to go back and they remain a threat to others. For that reason they should remain locked away from society. the risks posed are too great and the balance of rights has swung away from them.
