Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
9 October 2010
05:2074316As Birmingham City Council decide to withdraw from their agreement with the UK Border Agency to accept asylum seekers as from June 2011 (due to long council house waiting lists) the EU have backed visa-free travel for visitors from Albania and Bosnia ahead of a final decision in November. As always the French are objecting to the decision but will require support from other EU countries should they wish to block it.
Thoughts anyone?
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
9 October 2010
07:2174320well done birmingham,all towns and citys should do the same.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
9 October 2010
07:2674321This whole immigration thing is in a huge mess. I dont know specifically about Bosnia or Albania but it is worth noting that a great deal of immigrants from countries outside the EU make a huge and important contribution to this country's daily performance.
Our hospitals for example are clearly manned by men and women from the Far East, from Africa, and so on. The new governments answer to this is to put a cap on immigration. This is near sighted. Suppose your local hospital, working hard to keep your family alive, needs another 30 nurses and 20 doctors but the immigration cap has been reached. What then...we close hospital wards and A&E units???
This goes further afield than hospitals of course...running the railways, the food industry growing and picking..well you can go on.
But Boris Johnson Conservative Mayor of London is against capping, against the government, so are the nations scientists, even Charles Clark former Labour Minister in Government thinks drawing a line in the sand on immigration is the wrong thing to do.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
9 October 2010
08:5374335that is correct about scientists, but the majority of businesses in favour of dropping the cap on immigration from outside the e.u. are just looking for unskilled labour that work below the minimum wage of this country.
beside our infrastructure cannot take anymore increase in population.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
9 October 2010
09:1674337That is true Howard and because so many of our own unskilled are simply unemployable.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
9 October 2010
09:3974338not always the case barry, major construction projects employ agencies abroad to import cheap builders whilst ours do not get a chance to apply.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
9 October 2010
10:0074339Howard that is usually from within the European Union though, there is no cap proposed within the European Union because it would be illegal. The cap is proposed from outside the EU...however outside the EU supply our nurses, our doctors, our...well the list is endless.
Our own local populace wont work...as has been pointed out on various programmes in the past few days..they are quids in on the dole.
You might remember that infamous TV programme last year on fruit/veg picking in Norfolk and Suffolk. They tried the local English guys as an experiment, but they didnt like it, they quit after days and went back on the dole..whingeing all the while. if you are a producer you want immigrants...you need them.
Guest 659- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 331
9 October 2010
11:5774346How about the local populace who don't get a chance to work? I have lost count of the number of jobs my son has applied for with no joy, and he does not get any benefits because he is at home. So while some places prefer to employ those who are cheaper people like me end up supporting (almost) adult kids who simply can't get work, which means they then have no prospect of moving out. I think we brand youngsters not working as workshy without bothering to look at exactly what is available to them.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
9 October 2010
12:1974349not only youngsters but middle aged ones too, a chap i know locally(aged approx 50) has been out of work for 7 years, the longer he is out the less chance there is of him getting back into work.
i saw him in town last week and said that i hadn't seen him in ages, it turned out that he got put on a 4 week placement humping furniture around at some arts establishment for 30 hours per week.
i asked him if he minded doing such hard graft whilst only getting his £.60 something quid dole money, he replied that he loved it and had applied to do another 9 weeks.
Guest 659- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 331
9 October 2010
12:4374350Good for him but he should be getting paid, shouldn't he? The purpose (or part of it) of working is the pay cheque at the end and what that allows you to do in your life. Whenever these work placements are touted there is a lot said about pride in working etc but actually part of that pride is earning the money to support yourself and dependents
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
9 October 2010
16:0074358you're right of course kathy, but the bloke involved here argued that he did not have the humiliation every two weeks of going into the jobcentre and facing a cross examination over why he had not found work.
hope your son gets lucky soon before demoralisation and despair set in.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
9 October 2010
16:3174361PaulB, I also saw a TV documentary on fruit/veg pickers, on the German TV, about two years ago. In this case, it was a total shambles and mess-up how the local German job-centre and employer (farmer) went about it, and I would say quite unconstitutional. Excuse me if this gets long, I'll try to make it as short as possible.
The eastern European seasonal workers are cherry-picked people who are prepared to work 14 (yes, 14) hours a day for several weeks, for a minimum wage, bending down ALL THE TIME in a green house (or green houses), until the season is over and they return home by train or bus with their wages.
No-one from the German or British NHS makes a check later how these people develope phisycal body complaints when they reach 30 or 35!
So, the local German Arbeitsamt (jobcentre) in an area of Germany tried employing local Germans who had never before done fruit and veg picking.
Yes, they made them work for the same minimum wage 12 hours a day on their hands and knees in green-houses, and of-course they almost all quit after a few days.
Paul, so would I!
This is hideous, and sabotage! And it must be illegal. How on Earth can it be sensible, or legal to send untrained OR trianed people to work in such conditions, 12 hours a day on their hands and knees, when you can't even stand up for a pause without banging your head on the green house roof!
Surely, they could start with four hours a day, Paul, for untrained people sent to do such a hard and strenuous job! And employ more shifts.
May-be a person can slowly build up to six hours a day. But to work in such conditions for 12 hours? If something is worth doing, it's worth planning and doing well, as even the people employed in a German Arbeitsamt seated behind a desk would not dream of working 12 hours a day on their hands and knees!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
9 October 2010
16:3674363PaulB, I could give you examples of how workers in eastern Germany were suddenly laid off en masse in 2003 and replaced with eastern European workers employed for much less and doing 12 hours a day work, and all living in small quarters with five workers to a bed-room and one kitchen and bathrom for ten bedrooms. The German workers who were sent home had been doing eight hours a day and had families to support. This began as soon as the e.u. expanded from 15 to 25.
Paul, where is the justuce?
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
9 October 2010
16:4174364Many of these workers were illegaly employed through fake companies that recruited them in eastern Europe, for so it came out after research was made by the TV documentary people, but no steps were taken by the e.u. government or the German government to amend it.
They didn't even join the job-centre in Germany to get the jobs, just recruited through agencies and sent in. It's not only Britain, Paul! Many countries in the West have seen their workers slung out of their jobs! I personally have spoken to people in Britain who have told me this, that they were sent home and replaced by eastern Europeans over-night. Some were given the offer to work for much less or to be laid redundant.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
9 October 2010
16:4374365Going back to my original news my concerns are that if the big cities decide to follow B/ham lead then small towns ,like Dover, will find themselves lumbered with refugees as they lack the political clout.
With regard the relaxation of visa requirements this will surely only help the UK economy as less qualified manual workers will take on the work 'left' by the Brits therefore resulting in us buying cheap produce from our supermarkets.Most farms provide basic housing or caravans for these migrant workers.
This forum is cram packed of nostalgic items none of which knock the old Eastenders coming down here in their droves to pick the hops for little or no wages not much difference really from the migrant workers of today.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
9 October 2010
16:4474366I could write a book Paul, on real-life experiences of many people, but may-be you could research into how work-agencies in our Country function. They almost only employ cheap labour from abroad, and usually make a point of NOT employing British people (or German and French people for that matter) but only people who are prepared to work for 5. 80 an hour! Even only two or three days a week!
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
9 October 2010
18:0874371Marek - I agree that if more City or Metropolitan Councils follow Birmingham's lead this will put huge pressure on smaller towns like ours. This would take us back to the problems the town had 12 -15 years ago and no-one wants that.
As for relaxation of Visa requirements for once I am with the French - when we have minimal unemployment amongst the great unwashed, sorry the low/unskilled poorly educated masses claiming benefits then perhaps we can look to other countries for labour; whilst we have this problem we need to put these people to some sort of productive labour in return for their benefits...
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
10 October 2010
09:1374406Totally agree Ross - pragmatism is the only way when push comes to shove. BTW, I think that UKBA and central govmt wil simply enforce boroughs and authorities requirement to accept the housing needs of migrants if more than a couple follow Birminghams lead - it is a bit of a test case, methinks.........
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
10 October 2010
09:4374410I fully understand Birmingham and the decision they have made, but like others have said Dover could be the big loser in such a decision.
We all recall those dark years, not forgetting stabbings etc.
and poorly organised accomodation and people who were killng each other in there own countries, left in same hotel n Dover!!
then authorities wondered why as soon as social worker went home they were at each other with baseball bat's.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
10 October 2010
09:5074411I remember living in High Wycombe years ago and working in a vey diverse community. I heard white English people actually saying, about groups as diverse as South Africans, Nigerians, Indians, Pakistanis and Somalians "they can't even get on with each other, how can we expect them to get on with us". Wonderfully illustrating the rank and endemic racism at the core of the community at that point - because "they" were not white "they" were clearly expected to all be the same and get on. Thank God we have moved on from that - mostly!!!
