Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Marek - there is nothing of what you describe about Dan, he is consistent and morally honest, he says what he believes and means what he says.
As for taking Dan seriously. I have just watched a Fox news report and interview. The Fox reporter is a bit over the tiop in his praise of Dan and 'the man to watch' and so on. What is clear though from that report is that Dan is being taken very seriously and people are sitting up and taking notice of him.
'The man who rocked the world' is one description of Dan.
The interview is also interesting in respect of some critisism he has made of the Conservatives, politicians in general and bankers in respect of this crisis. I post a link to the report below and it is worth bearing with to the end, past the bit about American politics to hear what he said. Fortunately we Tories are strong enough to acknowledge when we make mistakes and, unlike Labour, Dan will be respected even more in the Party for these critical comments. I have always liked him since his early days as a MEP but he has certainly gone up in my estimation even more.
Worth a look here:
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3998161&referralPlaylistId=playlistSid Pollitt
If you dont support the EU and want the UK to leave then dont stand candidates at the election, or if you do then get them not to take the money. Especially dont stand people like Hannen who Marek aptly described as 'a two faced sycophantic gravy train self publicising second rate ex Torygraph journalist.Who is using the European Parliament to promote himself and fatten his off shore bank accounts'. Nice one
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
What I find particularly interesting here and indeed in other 'debates' is the response of Labour supporters to critism of the Government and Gordon Brown.
Instead of producing a cohesive defence of Brown, with supporting evidence (links etc), instead of challenging the specifics of the critisism with counter arguments they attack the messenger.
The response is invariably just what we have seen here with inane personal attacks on Dan Hannan or whoever else is making the critisism. Supporting evidence and quotes to back up any attack, from no-Party, international or other independent bodies are simply ignored as if they did not exist. Another favourite is damn the critisism as something do with the 'Daily Mail' or Mail readers or labelling the Telegraph 'Torygraph' (laughable that one actually). The other stock response is to divert attention from the points with sillyness or poking fun.
The lack of any real defence of this Government that its supporters are able to provide is very telling.
Sadly the inability of Labour supporters to put forward a good case and reverting to these tactics does not provide a good debate.
Still, it highlights just how weak and inept the Government really is.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Barryw
You let yourself down with the above posting.
I do not have to defend Brown because as a supporter I believe he is doing his best for this country and attempting to help it through an unprecendented world financial crisis.As Brown pointed out to Cameron during question time "unprecedented means without precedent".Excellent quip.
Secondly, my attacks on Hannan are based on my research of an individual who wants this country to withdraw for the EU but is happy to take salaries and expenses estimated at a £1million over the last 5 years. Read various reports published on the web.Surely you are not questioning Hannans salary and expenses as an MEP?These are hard facts.
Finally in my humourous attack on Hannan I did not resort to referring to any personal disabilities the poor chap may or may not possess.Unlike some who have commented on Browns rugby injury and subsequent eye loss.That to me is appalling ,unfunny,unacceptable and does not lend itself to a reasoned debate in a civilised society.Maybe you would like to make a joke about Obama's skin colour because his policies closely follow Browns and on occasions one could be forgiven for thinking when listening to Obama speak that they both had the same team of script writers.
Economists were only today talking on TV of the first green shoots of recovery in the UK recession following an up turn in the US housing markets and Browns world stage position.It would appear that he is respected by many for his ability to manage the UK economy.
Time will tell but even poor old Churchill got the boot following the end of the war so any change in govt would not surprise me.
Your decision to use the website that is so aptly named A**** as a constant point of reference only illustrates the Tories inability to put forward a reasoned argument.Mind you the Tories are preoccupied at present with the abolition of the inheritance tax, a sure pointer that in this countrys time of need that the Tories have their finger calmly on the pulse..its no wonder that Tories are jumping ship.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i have to agree with marek on the point of view of mr hannan basically milking things.
barry and roger have resorted to calling everyone a labour supporter who happens to be concerned by a hypocrite representing our country.
political stereotyping of people who disagree with another is usually an admission of defeat.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
howard, really!
Marek - You prove my point really. I dont doubt Brown tries his best, but his best is not good enough to run a whelk stall let alone a country.
Who said this:
""""The Chancellor is first and foremost the guardian of the people's money. But during the 1990s the national debt has doubled. This year alone the taxpayer will pay out 25 billion in interest payments on debt, more than we spend on schools. Public finances must be sustainable over the long term. If they are not then it is the poor, the elderly, and those on fixed incomes who depend on public services that will suffer most. So, as with our approach to monetary policy, so in fiscal policy: we will now establish clear rules, a new discipline, openness, and accountability.
My first rule - the golden rule - ensures that over the economic cycle the Government will borrow only to invest and that current spending will be met from taxation. My second rule is that, as a proportion of national income, public debt will be held at a prudent and stable level over the economic cycle. And to implement these rules, I am announcing today a five year deficit reduction plan.
......... As with our monetary policy, our fiscal policy will be all the more credible for being open and accountable.
Any Budget seeking to achieve high and stable levels of growth and employment must be guided by the true state of the public finances, but also by a clear assessment of the state of the economy. And to that I will now turn........
........ some of my predecessors have ignored these signs while others have deluded themselves into believing that growth, however unbalanced, was evidence of their success. I will not ignore the warning signs and I will not repeat past mistakes.""""
Gordon Brown, in his first budget speech and what he said was up to a point reasonable. It helped establish his reputation of 'prudence'. He said it though and did the opposite. It makes interesting reading, does it not, seeing what he said and comparing it to what he actually did. You have to wonder who wrote the speech for him and whether he actually understood what he said.
Incidentally - I read so many economic commentaries every day I can say that no-one really knows. But yes, I do expect the US economy to pull itself out of recession, perhaps this year, but the UK economy is not likely to follow too quickly and will be well behind the US and well into 2010 before it does. We will then find the debt hangover reallly starting to bite, inflation will start to take off (driven by recovery and the 'quantative easing'), interest rates will need to rise, the impact of that plus rising taxes will keep the recovery fragile and a double dip recession will become increasingly likely.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
barry
at the end of the day mr h is getting rather rich.
furthermore, the blues took us in, neither they or the reds are making any noises about taking us out.
it is all hot air, mr h knows he will be raking it in for years to come
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Its a politically difficult issue and to have a policy of getting out will provide an excuse for us to be painted as extreme. The eurofanatic BBC will do all they can then to undermine us. The result no Party wih aspirations of Government will have a get out policy in an election. DC has made clear though we are Eurosceptic and has gone as far as we can with such policies in a practical sense. I am convinced that we will pull out eventually though and it will happen as a natural development.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
barry,no matter if you red or blue you are either in the eu and fully comitted and changeing it from the inside to our advantage or out and banging our heads against a wall which in my opinion is a total waist of time.the trouble with the two main partys is that they are non comitel and weak in the head to see sence.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
it would appear that mr h denounced our elected government in the european parliament.
how unpatriotic is that?
he is also earning great wads of money every minute that he spouts.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
yes howard a 20 minute speach equlls one years pension.6 speaches a week by my reckoning he should be able to retire at 45 on a good screw,a bit like tha goodwin chappie.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
we all know what happened at mr goodwin's house, where does mr h have his houses?
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I'm surprised that some one who speaks up so well and articulately for Britain (Daniel Hannan), gets such a diatribe of abuse.
If you actually listen to what he said and not be blinkered, he was/is so right.
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
probably because he slagged our country off whilst abroad.
i never do, i hope that other patriotic forumites follow suit.
arguments about about our countries or governments shortcomings should be kept in house.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
What nonsense this slagging off our country from abroad statement is howard.
1/ Dan, as a member of the European Parliament, was responding as a member of that parliament to GB's address.
2/ He was telling Brown some home truths about Brown's failures, not slagging off his country.
3/ There is absolutely no convention about ordinary MPs and MEPs critisising the British Government while on overeseas territory. Yes, there is for Opposition leaders, not back benchers.
Do get with it,howard, you must have read that much ridiculed artice by Michael White..
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
do try not to talk down barry.
the government is here to be slagged off in the uk.
when hannan stood up in the european parliament he, in effect,ridiculed the british electorate for voting the present government in on the past 3 occassions.
i have not read any articles on the subject at all, i am capable of forming my own opinion, incidentally i have not even noticed any reference to it in the press.
maybe i missed it or it is just another internet 5 minute wonder.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
That's a nonsense Howard and how can you form an informed opinion if you know nothing of the subject as you have just admitted ?
Many of your arguments are well founded, so I'm surprised at your previous posting.
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i will keep it simple roger.
we all decry the state of our town centre, we argue amongst ourselves.
would you go abroad and say the same?
I am always talking Dover up when around and about - I once persuaded the fella driving the pick up truck that collected me from the M25 that he should try out Cullins Yard, de Bradlei, the Castle. He was planning to visit that weekend! I provided him with some numbers and info. We are Dovers best PR system if we do it properly!!