Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I understand that Richard and the guys from the LSBC, have almost finished clearing the undergrowth and litter from around the entrance and had all the stairs swept.
Some painting is in progress now, so it shouldn't be too long before it's looking ready for visitors/tourists.
Roger
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
an odd one, has the head of tourism got the authority to give permission for work on the grand shaft?
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
As far as I can tell, permission was for tidying and cleaning the site. When you start things like pointing, limewashing and murals it would need consent from planning/English Heritage (which is why the Western Heights Preservation Society appear to be very slow at things sometimes!!)
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
that it was i thought, i am astonished that a mural was put on the grand shaft.
i think it looks the business as it is, doesn't need anything added.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
With the greatest respect to the person concerned, what an idiot to deface such a historical site.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i will try to pop down and get a photo before the mural is removed.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
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Apparantly, the walls either side of the entrance are not listed, it's only the triple staircase and the railings at the top that are.
The walls were built in the 1940's I understand; I've been given details of the company that designed and built the guard room at the entrance and they have all the details of the walls etc.
Looking at the photograph above, an incredible picture to the one I saw when I took the guys from LSBC down there a couple of weeks ago - so much cleaner and tidier and if I may say so, much more looked after, than the neglected state it was in before.
With hindsight, it may have been better if Richard had the soldiers painted on a big board, that could be moved into the tunnel at the end of the day.
Roger
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
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It may also be that it is covered by the Scheduled Monument restrictions, and I don't think listings is strictly limited to the building - you can't for instance say that you will build a tower block in front of Maison Dieu House which is listed. The walls on the left of the image are certainly original structure as it is shown as the meter house. But it is up to English Heritage and Develop Control who I am sure will report the full story.
"much more looked after, than the neglected state it was in before."
Sorry Roger that is a rather insulting to the volunteers of the Western Heights Preservation Society who spend a lot of their free time tidying up and manning it for several events last year and I can't remember people complaining then!!
In fact we are going to be there this Sunday giving the guardroom a well overdue make over as well as finishing off tidying up the North Lines ditch (10:30 at the Drop Redoubt)
Been nice knowing you :)
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
Having seen the picture I now have mixed feelings about the painting that has been done.
It is certainly more attractive from a commercial point of view but is it in keeping with a historical site. I supposed it depends which side of the fence you are on, I am sitting on the top at the moment and not sure what side I am on.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I'm sorry that came across as insulting Paul, it wasn't meant to be, I know the hard work that you guys put in.
I walked up and down the Grand-Shaft a couple of weeks ago and also out at the top.
To see the state it was in - certainly more was needed before it could be opened to the public, than just clearing the rubbish that littered the stairways and cutting back the grass and clearing the litter outside the shaft itself.
I appreciate the grand-shaft is a listed building, but doesn't looking after it, mean more than the above ? what about pointing on the brick-work ? painting the railings and doors ? does th fabric of the building not need attention too ?
I also understand that the bricks of the shaft are old and more porous and the mortar/cement holding the bricks together is different to today's cement, therefore care has to exercised, as damage can be caused.
Once again Paul, I did not intend to make it sound like I was insulting the WHPS people who work so hard around the Western Heights every month, to keep it looking good; I've always supported what you do there.
Roger
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Thanks Roger
It is 200 years old and needs to be treated correctly within the law - a lot of money was spend a couple of years ago scaffolding the main shaft and having it limewashed, damaged lighting regularly replaced and WHPS do everything we can ready for the event so it is far from neglected.
As far as I know Jon is trying to seek the relevent permissions for the work thaht has been done, and to extend the permissions for further work to take place (it will be hard doing it retrospectively) - but running straight off to the press and slagging people off isn't going to help them .....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
I have been going down there off and on all last week and talking to Richardabout the work he and the lads have done.I think it does look alot better and the public walking by ,now stop and have a look at it,and even when I was there the members of the public were coming in and asking more about the site and when will it be open so they can bring their familys down to go inside,yes the WHPS do avery good job if it had not been for that group the whole site would be back to what it was some years ago.
But I think the work that Richard has done and still some more to do yet,does make the lower site look better and more open for the public to see.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
I should add that the biggest shame is that a such a historic and unique piece of architecture that is Council owned should rely on volunteers and money from a local business to look after it....
WHPS will still be opening the Shaft for our annual open weekend on 11/12 June and 10/11 September for the Heritage Open Days.
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Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
I had an encouraging meeting with an old friend of mine, who is an avid walker(fanatic), he wants to know more about walking the Miners Way Trail. Of course I have read the book from cover to cover but I know nothing about the walk itself, especially from a walker's point of view.
If it is feasible, he wants me to help organise, two walks a year, bringing hundreds of walkers from all over England. It would mean accommodating many people with their tents over the weekend and I believe it would be a great attraction for our area. Any info would be appreciated?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Speak to the White Cliffs Countryside Partnership who created the Miners' Trail as I am sure they will be extremely keen to help
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Thanks Paul
I do hope Jon is able to gain that (retrospective ) permission; I do understand the concerns and legalities of working on such a building and agree that it is a shame that such a unique structure only gets attention from volunteers and a local business - is this the Big Society ? if so, it needs some slack - and support.
Creating interest in it, is what it's all about Vic and if Richard's clearing, cleaning and smartening up the entrance area is creating awareness of the Grand-Shaft and results in lots more visitors to it, then that is great, but respect for the actual structure is also important.
Roger
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
This was featured on the Meridian TV news last night - I still don't think this is the way to go when people are still trying to make things happen...
A few relatively simple pieces of paper with agreement from planning and English Heritage would have avoided the whole issue. Limewashing I cannot see would have been a problem from EH point of view as nothing historic is being damaged or covered up, but trying to persuade people after the matter may not be so easy.
I cannot really comment regards the legalities as it is all so complex. We cannot do anything at the Drop Redoubt without scheduled monument consent, and although it can be quite frustrating, it ensures that we do everything right to protect the heritage for the long term so hopefully it is still there in another 200+ years.....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I agree Paul, it could antagonise people - people you want to be on your side. Keeping it low profile until a decision is made would be best.
One thing you can say, is that this is raising the profile of the Grand-shaft, so on the hope that all will be O.K. more people will come and see it.
Richard should be encouraged with his tourism initiatives, but also encouraged to be cautious if working with SAMs.
Roger
Been nice knowing you :)