howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Politics and religion should not mix in this way.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Tell that to the ayatollahs.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
The Fundamentalist movement in the US is worrying. We have seen the recent growth with the eccentrics of the Tea Party, the Koran-burning Terry Jones and, of course, George W Bush. As the US loses its world influence these parties will become attractive to the scared and the susceptible giving them power beyond their worth.
The desire for power lies at the root of this, not faith.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Sorry Mark but without the grassroots believers this would not be seen as a route to power. Civil law needs to be completely free and separate of religion in order to protect all, and guarantee true freedom of religion. Such people thrive on the support of religious groups and those groups desire to see their beliefs and prejudices enshrined in law.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
as soon as i hear a politician dragging the supreme being into the equation i immediately see danger signs.
we have many world leaders that have religious beliefs but don't bring it along as part of their election package.
of course the same applies to the demagogues that tried to stop people practicing their religion.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Mark - The Tea Party has a lot of merit, they are far from all being religious fanatics, some are of course but not all of them.
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
Barry
they are a bunch of vocal extremists with a limited world view. Their simplistic style appeals to the baser desires of their compatriots and the paucity of their arguments should be exposed. If they wanted isolationism I would happily ignore them but they will want to export their brand of intolerance across the globe. They are a dangerous faction that uses the greed of mass media to reach a far wider audience than they deserve and the general gullibility of the American public means they are given far too much credence.
At least when English nutters put themselves forward - David Icke with his Yogic Flying and his assertion that giant lizards really were the rulers of the Earth (or whatever it was) - they get marginalised. In the US they get celebrity status.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
The Tea Party is a parochial movement which will prove to have no legs in the long term.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
Peter
in a nation where 20% of the population believe President Obama is a Muslim, many think he is related to Osama Bin Laden
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/18/AR2010081806913.html you have to have some sceptism about their ability to differentiate between real world and Hollywood.
The Tea Party are an effective lobby group especially with Republican backwoodsmen and apparently even with some corporations
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-08/s-p-seen-surrendering-to-tea-party-at-expense-of-u-s-taxpayer.htm
Rick Perry or Sarah Palin for president? Bring on Chinese world domination!
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
This summer I have spoken to dozens of American tourists and their general view is that it's a nice idea but the people behind it do not have the intellectual clout to make it work against the existing entrenched interests.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
Intellectual clout isn't a necessity for success in the US - Ronald Reagan?!. A former American head of TV network said he bought trash for his programme schedules and knew they would be ratings hits based on the belief that 'no-one ever went bust underestimating the intelligence of the American public'!
The small number you spoke to - assuming they were over here - were a small minority from the already small minority of US citizens who own a passport therefore could not be held as representative of the American viewpoint. It's the non-travelling Americans from areas such as the southern Bible belt that will wield the power and their voice is getting louder as economic hardship hits home.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
this is the same nation that had vigilantes murdering sikhs in the wake of the twin towers incident.
apparently wearing a turban made them members of the taleban.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
And a former American journalist said that anyone who had what it takes to be elected president should certainly never be trusted with that office.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Ronald Reagan was the last a great President they had. His presidency was helped by his taking an afternoon nap, something more politicians should do!!!
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
great - no not really
oh ok if you were in the top 10% of wealthy americans, or a major corporation (that donated to his campaign?) or were a defence contractor then yes he was great
If you were an ordinary US citizen then no - your tax rose whilst the wealthy fews fell, your medical insurance went up, college fees went up, but your salary didnt
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
If is was so bad Ross why then is Reagan looked on with such affection by the Americans?
He made America feel good about itself again after the Vietnam war and was 'the great communicator' who stood alongside Mrs T and won the Cold War.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
It was under Reagan the US government debt first passed $1 trillion. Under him Americans learned that their national borrowing power was unlimited. His version of fiscal discipline was known as Reaganomics. That is also part of his enduring legacy.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
You are correct in that Peter - even the greatest of leaders have their flaws, Reagan, Churchill and Mrs T included. Even Nelson was seasick and Wellington spoke despisingly of his men as the scum of the earth - none of that detracts from their greatness.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Yes, Reagan also used 'Born in the USA' for his campaign, a song about loss of national pride and working class people no longer having a voice in their democracy...smart bloke.
I know of someone else this ignorant, claiming his favorite song to be 'The Eton Riffles', a song about posh schoolboys jeering men defending their jobs.
