Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
22 January 2010
22:3538544#1
Such a big topic this, and it`s a spin off from Rick`s `Big Question` topic, which brought about a comment from Phil on there, and a follow on from me. Needed a post to itself. A very big book in the Dover library entitled, `DARWIN`S UNIVERSE` an A-Z. So much interesting info` in there, I couldn`t put it down, but I did, then went up WHS and ordered a copy. It`s not just another science book. I`ve read much about Darwin, and evolution, but there`s nothing to touch this one. If you`re down there, go and have a browse. Should interest a few of you out there. Any thought`s on evolution, is it religious, non religious or is it a voodoo subject like in some parts of the States?
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
22 January 2010
23:0438546#2
one of my heroes colin, a man with an open mind with a great willingness to learn.
what always struck me was that he was a committed christian, then went on to effectively debunk the garden of eden stuff, something i always took as an allegory anyway.
when he returned and expounded his theory, he was ostracised by the christian fraternity.
he was strong enough in his new theory and his beliefs.
his views were unaltered about christanity.
one does not need to be an athiest to believe that the earth is a tad more than 6000 years old.
23 January 2010
02:4538561#3
Hey I love my monkey origins! I'm really glad that there are no angels or demons in the universe. I'm glad there isn't a God. I really don't feel afraid that evolution is a complex natural process in which humans are not the center of attention nor the ultimate final product. It doesn't bother me that evolution may render humans a lower life form one day - maybe reptiles or insects will dominate the world eventually? And we should all be very pleased that one man was clever and brave enough to ask complex questions about life which unlocked clues to the biggest question of all: "Where do I come from"?
DARWIN: 1
CHRISTIANS: 0
"I Am Smarter Than My Maker"
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
23 January 2010
04:5838562#4
Insects are dominant Rick. Terrestrial arthropods have pretty much been the dominant lifeform in terms of biomass since they started to emerge onto land during the late Silurian. They have always been here and always will be until the Earth gets burnt to a crisp when the sun finally goes nova.
It's only our egotistical human perspective that regards us as a superior survivor, but in evolutionary terms we are just a brief blip on a staggeringly colossal timescale. All species are but temporary and we are no exception, but arthropods as a phylum will just continue on and on even if the individual species disappear.
Despite what many people think, the human evolutionary record is well documented. The fossils may be few and far between and some of those that there are lead us to all sorts of fascinating sidelines on our family tree that went no-where. However, at no point in the human fossil record there a sudden WTF moment of innovation that forces us to embrace a creator (unless one actively wants to see it) as the incremental steps are all there.
It's it's a vote betwen Adam or Australopithicus robustus, I know where my vote lies.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
23 January 2010
10:5338570#5
Insects are indeed dominant on this planet Phil, (if you exclude bacterial life), and it`s always facinating and mind blowing to speculate on what would take over if we disappeared overnight? It`s all what I see so exciting about life, (real life), and which many of our species will die completely ignorant of. I`ll hasten to add, it will be boring to some, but that`s life. I take it they`re American cartoons Rick? They`re witty, but I have seen creationists cartoons as well, but they are much more of a threatning nature, which is a shame, as some of the more extreme should view both sides. HOWARD. Thank you mate, and I shall treat you to a nice bunch of M&S banana`s when I see you next.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
23 January 2010
19:0338590#6
quite amazing that someone can categorically say whether there is a god or not.
the great minds over the centuries have mulled it over and never reached a conclusion.
the only "fact" is that none of us will know until we are dead at the earliest, possibly never.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
23 January 2010
19:3738594#7
I don`t think I`ve ever denied a god, but if there was one, he/she would have to be non-human, in other words, of alien origin. And, if that was what started it all off, then we must assume we`re not alone in the universe. The only way we`ll ever know is to have contact with extra-terrestial beings, if we ever understood their language or however they communicate.
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Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
23 January 2010
21:5338602#8
I read somewhere that if the earth has been in existence for 24 hours then the human race appeared on the scene at a minute to midnight (23:59). Kind of puts things into perspective.
The creation story, as recounted in Genesis, was an attempt to explain the unexplainable long before it was even capable of being written down. It is just that, a story, a mere fiction told and retold by our ancestors who had absolutely no conception of evolution. How could they have? Except in a few rare cases man is not sufficiently long-lived to witness these slow changes at first hand.
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
23 January 2010
22:0638604#9
What it actually is Phil is giving some idea of time from the forming of our planet to the appearence of us, which creates a better picture of the time scale of evolution. I`ve always known the yearly one, with us appearing on 31st December at 11.56:30. I`ll leave you to work out any mathematical difference mate.
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24 January 2010
09:2438618#10
I have problems accepting either - one is an allegory the other a too restrictive view of practicalities of growth.
Answer this question to help me please?
if evolution is a sieving out of survival characteristics then why dont we see more graduation from those creatures that live in a protected environment . eg why are there so many different races - evolution would make mankind graduated. Same goes for any animal - there ought to be many more differences and visible proof. so where is jurrassic park then? Galapagos isnt a very diverse example...
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
24 January 2010
10:1738620#11
Evolutionary bottlenecks sift out the graduation. Usually environmental factors that purify the most successful group by scaled inbreeding. I seem to remember something about moths and the industrial revolution, evolving from grey to black in a relatively short amount of time as the result of blending in to the blackened trees.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
24 January 2010
11:1538624#12
Not sure what you mean by a protected environment David, is that pre-human, eg Africa and South America seperating, or present times? With the former, there have been many differences and visible proof, even today, but to a lesser extent, (us again?). But this goes for worldwide as well. Mountain chains, oceans have all created protected environments, and thus created a great diversity of variation to species. Our species has spread to the whole globe, creating many different races, and different characteristics. Not sure what the jurassic park bit is. Galapagos is a unique example in it`s own right.
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Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
24 January 2010
16:3338633#13
Interesting piece from a lecture by the great neo Darwinist J.B.S. Haldane, after giving a public lecture on Darwinism, and being confronted by a lady criticising it. Evolutionary sceptic: Professor Haldane, with the billions of years you give for the availibility of evolution, I simply can`t believe it is possible to go from a single cell to a complicated human body, with it`s trillions of cells, organised into bones muscles and nerves, with a heart pumping blood round miles and miles of blood vessels for decades, together with a brain capable of thinking, talking and feeling. Haldane`s reply: But madam, you did it yourself, and it only took you 9 month`s.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
24 January 2010
18:4538641#14
Has anyone seen CREATION, the new movie about Darwin? I've just done a review of it on the movie page, but don't hold your breath. It ain't much cop.
24 January 2010
19:1338645#15
I don't understand why the two - evolution and God - are mutually exclusive!! I have a faith, and for my money God set the stage for creation and enabled evolution to happen. I am happy to be related to monkeys - how else could we have developed??!! I am also clear that monkeys could not have happened without God setting the scene and enabling the process. Like some great omnicient Manager!! Where is the dichotomy?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
24 January 2010
19:1638647#16
have you swallowed a dictionary bern?
omnicient and dichotomy?
your posts keep me running to my bookcase.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
24 January 2010
19:1738648#17
If this movie has come from the U.S. Rick, and I suspect it has, then I wouldn`t have expected anything else. Any politician in America who says he believes in Darwinism is committing political suicide. That`s not what the voter`s want to hear.Another thing, the american`s don`t like to glorify anything that hasn`t been done by them, (eg Tom (aren`t I lovely) Cruise, with the film about the German enigma code which was cracked by the English in WW2 but hollywood changing history again, to make it look like the yanks did it.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
24 January 2010
19:2338653#18
Howard - you know you love it!!!!!
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
24 January 2010
19:3038656#19
I hadn`t heard much from you on here recently Bern, so I had to do some post creations to see if you were still about.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
24 January 2010
19:3138657#20
It's good to be back!!!
