Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#1
Following the tv programme shown last night which followed the plight of a Guersneyman to Switzerland to commit assisted suicide public reaction has been mixed. Over here in the Channel Islands many islanders felt he had been driven to it by the recent influx of Jocks and Poles in the island
On the mainland a spokesperson for the NHS said they had been forced to adopt these extreme methods in order to meet Tory targets and reduce hospital waiting lists. He added that with the closure of council care homes for the elderly and in the wake of Maggie Thatchers policy to shut mental institutions and put people back on the streets that the health service was left with no alternative.
David Cameron said that he was doing everything he could to help the less well off by providing discounted one way tickets for the poor. Ken Clarke,jumping onto the bandwagon, said that he had already booked places for Rose West the kid killer and Dennis Nielsen the boil in the bag murderer. ''I was elected on the premise of reducing the prison population 'and this seems like an acceptable and cost effective method of fulfilling those election promises.''
In a surprise announcement many Lib/Dems disenchanted with the demolition government and facing years in the wilderness have volunteered to pay for their own tickets and meet any medical costs involved.
Many people from Terry Pratchetts middle earth disc world have gone one step further by recommending that the unemployed,the bone idle,immigrants,the village idiots ,lager louts,Cardiff hen parties and over paid over sexed footballers should all be forced to top themselves upon reaching 30 years of age,
In Dover ,Mr Ima A Right Hyphen Winger suggested that pavement cyclists,irresponsible dog owners,junkies,8 Bell boozers and even his own nest door neighbour should be added to the list.
On a serious note for religious reasons (yes I know its no longer hip to have faith) I am totally against euthanasia and would rather suffer for a few years on earth than spend an eternity of regret..
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#2
I thought you were writing from one of those spoof-news web-sites Marek. A good list though, should we start a collection for their expenses now ?
I can't agree with you on assisted suicides though Marek; I certainly don't agree about "life at all costs". It's about quality of life and when there is absolutely no quality, what is the point of it ?
I've seen someone die of MND and it is a horrible way to go - there are many other awful ways that people suffer before they pass awy. Why should God make people suffer so - it won't help them get to heaven will it ?
I thought getting to heaven is more about how you live your life, not how you die - isn't it ?
Roger
Guest 650- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 542
#3
at Marek.
Seriously, if people choose to die in the knowledge of as many aspects and considerations as they can accommodate, then ultimately it is up to that person what to do. It is that person's life, and the one thing we are given is - as far as is possible in societal circumstances - freewill to decide what to do with it.
If one considers that the perspective of an eternity of regret, as taught by some faiths, is of less sure consequence than some years of suffering on earth for one's self and one's loved ones, and maybe even detriment to one's society, then perhaps it will be the case that assisted death will be chosen. We can only make that choice in the knowledge we have, which, of necessity, will always be imperfect.
The only thing that would concern me is whether there is differential access to care or assisted living or assisted death; perhaps filtered by ability to pay or where one might live in the - for example - UK. Another consideration is the dilemma of Terry Pratchett and others suffering from the same condition, who may, simply because those assisting the death have to be certain it is freewill and sound mind that informs the decision, be forced, should he choose death, have to take that death earlier than perhaps would have been truly wanted.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#4
It's another of those big dilema's
should a person have to suffer, when, in sound mind they decide they dont want years of pain, and want to head to switzerland(those that can afford it)
I think we leave the gate open here and put relatives in a very difficult position.
The husband/wife in most cases are fully aware of there spouses wishes, and the suffering they are in.
It's bad enough watching there loved ones die, without making them criminals for helping them.
I can see both sides in this one, don't want to give freedom to just assist people to die as some would abuse the system, doctors could also take that easy option should it become legal.
But on the other hand, should people have to have years of pain, whilst ythere spouses watch on helpless.
I think there is a long debate to be had on this one
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 657- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,037
#5
I am pro assisted suicide, yes even though I was brought up as a Catholic. I didn't see the programme but totally agree with what Roger has said in that it's about quality of life and when there is absolutely no quality, what is the point of it? Having seen my 24 year old goddaughter and Mother go through agonising and long drawn out deaths, should I be in the same predicament that's the way I would want to go. It's dignified. As Keith pointed out unfortunately our nearest and dearest could be charged for helping and to me that is wrong. I'm not sure I could handle that.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#6
We now have the ability to keep people alive when a few years ago they would have died earlier of natural causes which is brilliant in some cases but not all.
Everyone should have the right to choose when to die, they do not have to use that right.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
#7
I am totally against any legalisation of "assisted suicide", it is the start of a very slippery slope and open to unthinkable abuse. The world is not perfect and all families are not loving and caring, even the 'best intentioned' can be wrong in their understanding of others.
The list of horror stories from the health service concerning lack of care and patients left unattended shows the danger in any legalisation. GP's are far too often inclined to put ailments down to age rather than looking for causes and, with increasingly tight budgets for diagnostic care "assisted suicide" could all too easily become a simpler option.
If I get taken in with something nasty I want a sign pinned on me saying, "do everything you can to revive - I aint going".
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#8
CHRIS P;
As i said this realy is a dilema, it is difficult for those in serious pain, who clear in mind wish to be free of that pain.
I did highlight the problems of GP's(some)taking the easy option.
wonder if theres an alternative
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
#9
One important section of the debate has been missing: what about people who would choose not to experience a helpless and horrific slide towards death but are unable to say so? I am thinking in particular about people who have, for example, had a stroke and there is no way back from it, the only way is to die slowly. I watched both my parents take weeks to die, unable to move, speak, even open their eyes mostly, and I know they were suffering and I know they would have chosen to slip quickly away rather then endure. But, knowing people, I am with Chris P on this - while I have changed my view significantly over the years, until there are real, proper safeguards and until disabled people or people seen as different are not viewed as alien or a drain on society, we cannot risk creating the opportunity to assist a suicide.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#10
I do understand the dilema
a difficult one me finks
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
#11
Is your nickname Mr Sensitive?
Keith - you make me smile.....
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#12
bern
me?
no open and honest say it as it is
some like it
some don't
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#13
i read recently that the swiss public are becoming concerned over being seen as a country where people come from abroad to end their lives.
i fully respect both sides of the arguent on this issue, the problem i have is where the patient is not in the right mental state to make a decision to end their life.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#14
HOWARD;L
Theres a lot of for and against on this
not an easy one to solve
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#15
Wow..what a response!
I wrote the 'spoof' article last night when everyone else were safe and sound asleep in their beds. I think that we have overlooked one serious point and that is that until there is a change in law it is illegal to commit suicide assisted or otherwise.
I was recently quite poorly and in hospital at one stage it looked pretty grim ( one can always tell when you are sailing close to the wind as the family gather round the bed and the priest is annointing you with the last rites
). They couldn't even risk moving me to the critical care unit so they had to come to me. Well needless to say I have recovered enough to enjoy life. In the same ward I witnessed 4 deaths all of whom were given excellent care right up to the end...including the pads and step back routine. If assisted suicides were made legal what would be stopping the hospital in advising the relatives that it was fruitless to continue bearing in mind the cost to the hard strapped hospitals.
I'm with Chris P on this..it's a slippery slope from which there is no return and open to abuse. Dr Shipman was a leading advocate of assisted suicides...and looked what happened to his patients.
Luckiily I have my faith and the law of the country to guide me.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
#16
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#17
Ah.. thanks Bern
I loved Natascha's take on my illness..
''but who's going to do all the cooking,take me to school and play with me if....''bang on I thought she's destined for great things..
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#18
BERN;
We may not agree, but i like to hear everyone's viewpoint, including marek's who on many subjects we agree.
This forum would be boring if we all agreed on everything
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS