Guest 658- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 660
3 January 2010
21:0936269#1
This posting is aimed at those in authority, Paul Watkins posts on here Gwyn also monitors the sight [allegedly]. Also a few town and district councilors post on here this is for you all. Can all those in authority please adopt the attitude as regards planning permission etc that jobs are paramount. We are all moaning about the lack of shops and facilities within the town could it be because of the high number of unemployed people in the town. I Live on a council estate and the number of people out of work is frightening. When i hear of yet another development being refused planning permission it makes my blood boil. Or my tax money being given to yet another bunch of consultants with no idea of local problems.Get a grip THINK JOBS first and foremost not in 10yrs but now.
beer the food of the gods
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
3 January 2010
21:3836270#2
Well said .I have repeatedly said unless people have jobs they cannot support the shops we do have .I do know where our Council estates are having held the cabinet post for six years which oversaw the local housing It makes me very sad when I see how some families struggle .I count myself lucky as I receive a pension from my late husbands employer ,however It does not mean I go on Holidays .I manage to keep a roof over my head .Icame home the other day travelling on a bus as per say and I felt that I as a councillor should be doing more to help people .Its all very well having grand ideas but let us get back to the basics and I say again Cable Cars and Giant Tv screens do not put the food on the table .Our young people deserve a future and that means jobs .Give them work and perhaps the pride will come back .
I watched a young girl recently getting on the bus loaded down with basic essentials .Her remark was I have just got paid and I suppose that was her social money .Probably no husband and if she had one he probably has no job .
Some people work who have no need as they could live on a lower income and give more jobs for those in need .Perhaps now it is clear why I dont sing from the same song sheet as some of my fellow councillors .Im an old fashioned councillor and by listening and watching people you do get a clearer picture .We as councillors should actively be out there trying to get employment into our town .
We need investment to create jobs not airy fairy schemes .That is good old fashioned employment where people make things to sell abroad
one of my famous quotes from years ago and only after I said it did I realise how it came over .Wait for it ."We need more men doing things with their Hands "
Well thats a good end to a rant
Guest 658- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 660
3 January 2010
21:4236271#3
Sue you have put my thoughts in print far better than i could, thank you.
beer the food of the gods
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
4 January 2010
06:0336281#4
Guzzler/sue
i REALISE you both come from diffrent political backgrounds to myself, but there realy is a worrying trend in unemployment and not just on council estates.
Dover has suffered over the years, whilst other towns have prospered.
But I do go back to previous postings I made where by it became clear whilst i was on the council we had a planning dept that found all the reasons why you couldnt o things rather than why you could.
Looking around Dover that attitude doesnt appear to have changed
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
4 January 2010
06:2036282#5
Unless new industries or supermarkets take on more locally based staff I am afraid that I can see no end to it.The pits,mill,engineering works and even the poor old milkmen streaming out of the dairies have all gone and the ferries and docks seek their labour force elsewhere.
Maybe a way forward is for Immigration to relocate their Head Office in Dover...get it away from Lunatic House in Croydon.We now have excellent rail links.East Kent Salads are expanding but they mainly recruit from the Gurkhas and the ethnic minorities as they are the only ones that will undertake that type of work.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
4 January 2010
07:5936285#6
I'm not sure if you are referring to a particlar planning application Guz ? - The retail park at Whitfield perhaps ?
I am on the Planning Committee at DDC but not allowed to speak, discuss or vote on this application as I am Dover Business Support Manager and as such it is felt (?) that there is a "conflict of interest" - which I guess means that I will be more supportive of Dover Town businesses and therefore not support this development (which is still in Dover - Whitfield is part of Dover isn't it ?).
I must be honest, if there are going to be big shops (which define a Retail Park) and they are going to stock the same things as Town Centre shops, then isn't there a great danger that the Town will suffer and even more shops will close and unemployment will arise and less reason for people to come into Town ? There will be a cafe/restauarant too, so maybe our cafes in Town will suffer ?
We need more open shops in Town and more support for those open shops.
We also don't want people going to Broadstairs, Folkestone, Canterbury etc. (out of our District) to buy their large goods - fridges, freezers, washing machines etc. beds, bedroom furniture and similar; Whitfield is only a short drive or bus-ride away.
A healthy Town or a healthy Retail Park - can Dover have both ?
Roger
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
4 January 2010
09:1736287#7
The way its looking Roger, it is not possible for Dover to have both..the only chance for central Dover is as I see it, is with the develoment of something powerful enough to match these retail parks...ie the ASDA supermarket devlopment (DTIZ) which is currently on the table, albeit a very long table. We have seen the guys on this forum saying quite often how they go to shop in the supermarkets in Canterbury or Folkestone...so they suck people in from elsewhere...our ASDA development would therefore do the same to people elsewhere in other towns or outlying districts, and will therefore keep the inner town alive.
With regard to Planning though, as was mentioned in Guzzler's interesting original post. The planning department reflects the views of local people and as I see it local people are generally ...generally, against any kind of new development. There is a huge reluctance to grapple with anything that might bring change. I think thats part of the problem..it has become easier to do nothing... that way nobody gets offended and the quiet life goes on.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
4 January 2010
09:2236288#8
You have to face facts PaulB that not all types of retail can come to Dover Town Centre and indeed not all retail is suitable for the town centre.
We do need out of town shopping or all that will happen is that the jobs provided will go to Ashford, Canterbury and Thanet.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
4 January 2010
10:2436289#9
Interesting posts there .Good to see Barry W and i are on the same wave length .The main point Guzzler was making followed by myself we need employment .Firms that make things .Shops give some jobs but if people dont have jobs they cannot spend in the shops .That is why over the years Dover has lost some quality shops .Who buys Hats ,gloves decent clothes etc .How much longer will the Art shop survive .
Many years ago my sons were thinking of relocating their business to Dover .Planners etc were not keen to see an engineering firm based at Whitfield so they remai n in Dartford where they have expanded .They now employ over twenty chaps ,engineering backround and sell to the overseas market
What do we have that a childrens party place .Which sucks the money out of people pockets and I think I stand to be corrected employs two or three people .
Marek you are so right once they moved staff from the Eastern Docks the writing was on the wall .
Royal Mail is another .I dont think we are fighting enough .Yes people like me are unpopular but someone needs to be accountable .We get paid an allowance to be a councillor which should be earnt by putting the hours in .Sadly the power goes to the few, and people like Roger and myself sit on the outer circle
Very few Full Council meetings and even there debate is restricted .The only avenue open is to ply the questions .Question time is for one hour only .
Mebers of the public could ask questions so if some of you who protest on here were to ask questions at a Full coucil meeting we might get some where ..
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
4 January 2010
11:4836292#10
I certainly don't want to point fingers, Roger, but I don't think the choice is between a healthy Town Centre or healthy out of town shopping. I think the High Street of old has had its day, almost every sizeable town has these retail parks where parking is free and easy and where leisure facilities are built alongside with cafes, restaurants and (often as not) cinemas all sharing the same facilities. You cannot compete with these, and if the Town is to prosper it has to build one too.
Where the High Street can and will succeed is by developing more niche shops with quality goods that are attractive to look at and visit. There are some very good examples of this in Dover - Curiosity of Dover for instance - and these shops, that offer a different shopping experience, and with good pubs and cafes competing against the high-volume retail park shops must be the way for the High Street of old to evolve. At the risk of being blunt, who wants to pay to park to visit Peacocks and the indoor market when out of town retail parks offer free parking and a wider variety of quality shops?
Evolve or die, I say - and I think Tom's original post on this thread is spot on. Can our planners please stop being so blinkered?
True friends stab you in the front.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
4 January 2010
12:3136294#11
Andy is right .Most people now use retail parks when they require white goods ,furniture etc .My daughter lives in Ashby de la Zouch and visits outer town retail parks for main item as described above ,however Ashby it self is a delight .It has lots of small shops with high quality gifts on offer such as Curiosity in Dover .Lots of small tea rooms where you get table cloths, a china cups and saucers .and waitress service .Small shops with childrens clothes not found in Tesco or peacocks .A place to browse.That is why I love Tenderten .
I used to love going in that fabric and knitting wools shop in Market Square .THat lovely handbag shop with real leather goods also in Market Square .In Ashby they cater for the younger generation by having internet cafes .and they dont have a Weatherspoons.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
4 January 2010
13:0336300#12
what are the demographics of ashby de la zouch and tenterden susan?
the fact that wetherspoons have not located there suggests that there is a fair amount of money washing around the local econonomy so they do not need one.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
4 January 2010
13:1436301#13
I would say Tenterden is a little more up market than Dover.Ashby mixed as just up the road you have Coalville x Mining community .Funny you have a weatherspoons where the local econonomy is at a low base .Sad because it draws people who can ill afford to spend money on booze / Worst thing this 24 hour opening times .In the past decade this country has slowly gone down hill We need to bring back pride and the strong upper lip .Too much nanny and not enough self respect
Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
4 January 2010
15:3836304#14
What has Dover actually got? The port and a castle, to put it bluntly. Getting visitors through Dover is easy enough - it's getting them to visit Dover itself that seems to be the problem. We need to rejuvinate the town centre so that visitors don't bypass the town just to visit the castle or head off to the continent. The DTIZ is a start, if it ever gets beyond knocking a few things down, and this will produce some local employment - but it is all taking so long to come to fruition. Getting retailers into the town would help but I feel that the sky-high business rates here are not doing the town any favours in that respect.
Improving the retail prospects of the town will help unemployment but not by much I fear. So we need to be looking at getting some light industry into the area, or something that will employ local people on a bigger scale, bring a bit more prosperity to the town and its current inhabitants. A prosperous town will attract more people to come to live and work here - and then we can start to think about building new homes.
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
4 January 2010
16:0036305#15
Dont disagree with you Phil but you mention the rates, these are not set locally and are based on rental values, assessed every 5 years. There has just been an assessment by a division of HMRC with the rate set by Government. Not much we can do locally about these. they say that there has been overall a small reduction.
Yes we certainly need to get people into the town but it is a chicken and egg situation. The DTIZ does seem to be progressing, though slowly, I understand the CPO is under way for a crucial part of the site needed so the masts can be re-located.
You are so right about some light industry. We have lots of small companies and a few large employers but a shortage of those between. The right kind of premises are not always available despite the business park. Getting such businesses into the area is not an easy job.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
5 January 2010
00:1636341#16
I agree that Business Rates are a big problem to people who want to start a business here (or continue with one they already have) and I agree that they are mainly based on rental value, which in many cases are set by absent landlords and seemingly based on London valuations, which obviously are not valid for Dover.
Building a good business plan (which the Chamber of Commerce can help with) is as Barry said some time ago, essential. I do believe that many businesses are not trading at the level their business-rates would suggest.
We need to be able to attract businesses here, but i'm not sure what advantages we can offer them - financially I mean. Assisted Area Status used to be available to help attract businesses here, but don't this is is still valid or available. I'll check it out tomorrow.
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 January 2010
00:2436342#17
roger
my memory suggests that assisted area status was rejected by a former chief executive up at the fort.
maybe one of the cabinet members that look in here would confirm or deny this?
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
5 January 2010
00:3336343#18
Back in the 80s Howard the then CE at DDC said we don't want to have AAS, but my understanding a short time ago, was that Thanet and Dover District have the same status, but I've not heard anything about it for some time, so not sure if it can be used as an incentive.
Roger
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
5 January 2010
10:2636350#19
What we need is for someone to present a case regarding the high business rates .
Guest 658- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 660
5 January 2010
12:5436358#20
In an earlier post Sues tale of her two boys failing to relocate there business here explains my point. Jobs must come first because without spending power no good shop can survive.
beer the food of the gods
