14 October 2010
10:1074970#1
Sorry guys - I hijacked a different thread with this so have moved it to a new topic. I feel strongly about this!!!!
Going off on a bit of a tangent: one hidden agenda that makes me angry is the use of education as a political tool. It is absolutely true that people with less or less formal education are at a disadvantage in the wider world, especially when competing for funding/business/services. The right words matter, and the ability to read a situation and interpret information matters.
I feel passionately that education should be free and is a right for everyone regardless of social factors. This doesn't mean I think we should all walk around with degrees and PHds: qualifications are a different and seperate matter. But education to any level is a human right and the open door to freedom and liberty. To have a government deliberately dismantling any bridge towards that aim is abhorrent and I have lost any respect and support I may have had for our government as the result of their meddling and fiddling with our education system. It had already taken a battering from the previous inept crowd which appalled me even more because of their allegedly socialist (and by implication therefore more liberal regarding education) and needed a real overhaul to make it more effective. But to so clearly hug the power that education bestows to the bosom of those who can afford it, to so blatantly deter many who would need encouragement to consider further education, to so self-righteously use the excuse of the recession to lever in measures that will in effect limit the real education to those who already have a measure of power is beyond the pale and wholly unforgivable.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
14 October 2010
10:3174975#2
bern
i haven't seen any cuts in the education budget other than new builds.
there is talk of cuts to things like school meals and the like, but nothing to hit educational standards unless i have missed something.
14 October 2010
13:0374984#3
Higher education Howard - the charging of students for any education sucks, and creating debts for people in the future is unforgivable.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
14 October 2010
13:1174989#4
with you now, that is the scheme where the former boss of b.p. decided that university dons stand on street corners shouting "i won't charge you 15 grand, i won't charge you even 12 grand a term".
14 October 2010
13:1674991#5
That's the one Howard. Sucks a biggie. The right to proper education, in which the mind is nourished, skills acquired, curiosity encouraged and the vocabulary stretched is fundamental. I am outraged that the last lot dwindled it and that this lot seem bent on retaining it only for those who already have the means to buy it. The concept of buying education is toxic - you can buy a place at Eton with all that entails but you can't buy real education- in the same way that class can be inherited but real class is inate.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
14 October 2010
14:4974994#6
Parents, schools and the media tell children it is bad to get into debt, then 18year olds are forced into debt if they want to go to University. My grandson worked the whole time he was at Guildford but still ended up owing thosands of pounds to the bank.
A really
world.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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14 October 2010
15:5474998#7
It is outrageous - we should not only be educating our population but also encouraging our bright talent. My son is at Durham Uni amassing his own debt. He will be - is at the moment! - an asset to his community professionally and personally, and how do we reward him for not sitting on his jacksy drawing our taxes - sorry, benefits - and imbibing? We saddle him with a debt. Thanks a bundle Big Society.
You will have noticed I am incandescent..........
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
15 October 2010
00:2175075#8
Mmmm struggling with this on 2 counts
a - don't see the weapon connection
b - what gets cut to fund all these people at Uni?
In the old days when I was of that age only 10-15% of 18 year olds went to Uni now it is 50% hence the funding crisis. Oh an I left Uni with an overdraft as my grant only covered my hall fees not my other living expenses.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
15 October 2010
05:3575079#9
a - education=power
b - the range of people attending uni gets cut.
But you had a grant and not a loan, and I don't disagree with the figures! Not everyone needs to go to uni and not all the people there will benefit from degree level academic education. But education is much much more than that, more than bits of signed paper. There are many ways to be educated after school ends, and ripping off academics who will be of benefit to society (or Society if you are a Cameron) is not the way to encourage talent and develop people, academically or otherwise.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
15 October 2010
18:0875134#10
Bern
I am a Bennite when it comes to education - i.e. we should have access to education from the day we are born to the day we die.
Having said that we have to recognise the world we live in and that education costs.
One solution is:
Universities should be for the 10-15% of A level students (about 1/3rd of the current intake) that want to engage in the pursuit of academia.
We should recreate Polytechnics and move all technical or vocational degree qualifications to these institutions, but keep them small by agreeing specialisms and working with industry/business to sponsor/support relevant courses where appropriate to do so. (probably 25-30% of A level students). We should also be looking to get these bodies to provide mature students with professional qualifications via night school or day release.
We should "beef up" local colleges of further education to offer not only A levels, but also NVQs, ONDs & HNDs developed in association with local businesses, perhaps tied into apprenticeships or job club schemes, (would cater for any one else who wants to pursue an qualification based education).
Finally, non examinable courses of all flavours should be offered by local education authorities (for nominal fees) using the facilities in local secondary schools so that everyone can learn when they want to.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
15 October 2010
19:0675144#11
Ross - spot on!! And I join you as a fellow Bennite-in-education! Appropriate education with free access and reward, and let's march on this appalling shower who want to crush it to death!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
15 October 2010
19:2875149#12
Bern, interestingly enough you might find that UKIP have views on education that might appeal to you!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
15 October 2010
19:4775156#13
never heard tony benn and u.k.i.p mentioned in the same breath before alex.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
15 October 2010
19:5275157#14
All the fuss about further education that is forced upon us makes me wonder how this country grew to be so great. Maybe we should blame all the country's woes on the non-world wise graduates who now seem to run the country.
The vast majority of the population never went to university, they got a job on leaving school and climbed the ladder in their chosen career. Now they leave uni expecting to become the boss in a few years.
Please don't think I am against further education but it should be used correctly, some are born to be skillful artisans they should be encouraged as much as those who want to go to uni.
Ross you hit the nail on the head with your college comments.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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16 October 2010
00:2775165#15
Ah good old Tony Benn! The same man who sent his son Hilary to Westminster Under School (preparatory school - present fees £4726 per term) before Holland Park 'Comprehensive' .
Holland Park was one of the flagship comprehensives teaching both Russian and Spanish and was 'streamed' in the 60s when young Hilary went there.
Unfortunately in the seventies a lunatic idealist Derek Rushworth took over as headteacher and started spouting about self esteem, equal learning environments and other edu-crap. Streaming was done away with and results plummeted Holland Park becoming another under-performing 'sink comp'.
Over the past ten years it has managed to drag itself back up under a dynamic and transforming head. Streaming's back, results are up.
I note on their current web-site, the school treats it as mainly or entirely a parental responsibility that pupils should be "well-spoken".
I wonder how that would go down in Dover, innit????
16 October 2010
07:0175170#16
Ha!! I remember being a little confused when one of my childrens primary schools stopped having competetive sports at sports day because it "wasn't good to fail". We parents ambled around a field wondering when the beer tent would open watching everyones kids throwing bean bags around and no-one winning anything. It was all a bit of a damp squib and no-one felt good about anything at all. Streaming, competition, a bit of guidance about standards (innit) - all good stuff!!!
Jan - I can only agree - education should be appropriate. I maintain though that whatever one is being taught, the act of being educated in something creates a new way of thinking, an opportunity to think - and that should be free!!
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
16 October 2010
08:0775175#17
What I think will be my last comment
.
Book learning is not the most important thing in life. How to 'read' other people and the situation you are in or at are far more important and one of the most difficult skills to acquire.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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16 October 2010
08:3875180#18
For me, Jan, both are equally important. It's probably a bit sad, but for me there is nothing as satisfying as problem-solving, understanding and academic "stuff". I am sad that many young people will miss the opportunity to develop that part of themselves - we will lose a great resource that way, and they lose an opportunity for greater self satisfaction. Without people who "do" the book learning we would not have the internet, great philosophers, great architecture, biology, physics, vocabulary................the world turns on developing our understanding. It also feeds the skill you mention about reading people - and charming them too!! But it isn't all about "academic" stuff - to me it is admirable and beyond my ken to understand electrics, my car, the dardstadly things that go on in machinery....to develop a business, create wonderful things. Each individual has the right to develop their own unique set of skills, and with governments who seem hell bent on reducing access to proper, real education that involves all of the above, we are, frankly doomed and I have nothing but contempt for the politicians who set this course and some who have reneged on their promises for the sniff of power.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
16 October 2010
11:1275195#19
i always used to enjoy sports day, the highlight for me was winning a tube of refreshers by coming second in the egg and spoon race. kick started my life of future sporting excellence.
16 October 2010
14:3575210#20
and dental work....................