howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
14 February 2011
22:0292638#1
rather a harrowing documentary featuring brutal attacks on children as young as 7 at our countries faith schools.
a british child would get a right bashing for getting a arabic word slightly wrong.
everyone turns a blind eye to the problem, the problem will get worse with the present policy of free schools.
rather sobering to hear the stories of adults that have been traumatised by their youth.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
14 February 2011
22:2492643#2
Bashing children at school is against the law, and it is against the law outside of school too.
If anyone is bashing children, they are breaking the law.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
14 February 2011
22:3692647#3
NSS - of course hitting anyone is against the law
The point is what are we going to do about it?
Or will we shy away from action because it happens in "faith" schools?
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
14 February 2011
22:5192650#4
I suspect it will be swept under the carpet Ross.
I would like to see an end to all faith schools and their indoctrination regardless of the faith they teach.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
14 February 2011
22:5192651#5
Here we are - lots of unassociated issues.
I did not see the programme but lets just look at what is said so far in this thread....
Define please 'brutal attacks' - what on earth is a British child doing learning Arabic in school anyway? far more sensible for French/German to be learnt in British schools, whatever faith they are, and stuff all the pc crap.
'bashing kids' define what is meant by that as well - well if it is the kind a 'bashing' I remember from my school days then I am all in favour of it. I am against brutality but sensibly adminstered physical punishment is good and the law is a total ass in stopping schools from having corporal punishment.
Why on earth should it 'get worse' with free schools? no reason at all, sadly I cannot see it getting better, by which I would suggest that better would be the re-introduction of the cane or to at least make that option available again.
I smacked my kids when they misbehaved and they are all the better for it. Again there is this nutty fringe that want even that banned. Utter and complete loonacy. Thankfully, Ross we are not in the dreadful state by which smacking your own kids is banned by law, so your statement about 'hitting anyone' is wrong.
To be honest I dont think 'hittting anyone' is wrong, a far too broad a statement - some people deserve a damb good thrashing and its is all they understand. We are far too soft in this country....
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
14 February 2011
22:5792654#6
The trouble is people will use emotive words like "bashing" and "hitting" when they mean a smack which is an entirely different thing.
I have heard your arguement before Barry, I could say it explains a lot.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
14 February 2011
23:1992660#7
Sad that isolated examples of mistreatment are dressed up by the media to appear as if such things are widespread. Faith schools of all persuasions do a good job. Our kids all learned Arabic at school. While they have forgotten it all, they retained an empathy with that culture.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
14 February 2011
23:2392662#8
anyone who saw the programme would know the difference between discipline and brutality.
just as important the hatred to others that was drummed into the pupils.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
14 February 2011
23:2992665#9
I did not see the programme. I shall catch up later on iPlayer. Until then I shall reserve my opinion. But you are all entitled to it so you shall receive it. In Shaa'Allah.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
14 February 2011
23:4292671#10
Jan, when I went to school, in England, the Christian Faith was taught to us, and no-one ever hit us.
I learnt about the Faith, as if I had gone to a Faith school, and that also applies to Saint Mary's in Dover.
I think you misunderstood what Howard was stating, which probably has nothing to do with Christian faith schools including private ones. Because one person gets thrashed in one private school for saying a word wrong from the Koran, are you suggesting that now all Faith schools have to be closed down?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
14 February 2011
23:4792677#11
i could hardly be described as a liberal, but the hatred drummed into these children and the violence meted out left me distressed.
even blue barry might see that this is over the top.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
15 February 2011
00:1292680#12
Alexander, I do not believe in faith schools of any denomination, which if you had read post #4 properly you would have understood.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
15 February 2011
01:1192682#13
Jan, what about the people who do believe and have Faith, why should they not be allowed to go to Faith school? To close down Faith schools would be an act of intollerance.
Children seated around tables learning the Bible and listening to an adult reading or explaining from the Holy Scriptures don't want to be evicted from their school.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
15 February 2011
01:1992683#14
Playing devil's advocate here but....change the word Bible to Koran and do people feel different?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
15 February 2011
08:0392685#15
I am not getting embroiled in a needless arguement here but I will explain why I do not believe in faith schools.
They set out to indoctrinate their pupils with the faith they serve so they are not neutral as any learning establishment should be.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
15 February 2011
08:4492688#16
faith should be limited to 30 minutes a week and not be forced on any idividual what ever faith.
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
15 February 2011
10:3092706#17
Faith schools surely encourage segregation.
Schools, I think, should echo society, and teach tolerance and acceptance of multi-cultures and religions, and non discrimination. At the same time it can teach about different faiths, surely.
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
15 February 2011
10:3392709#18
i am against faith schools for reason stated above.
did anyone else see last night's programme?
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
15 February 2011
13:4792726#19
The Christian Faith cannot be limited to 30 minutes a week. It is 24 hours a day!
In Britain, British children should be taught the Chrisitian Faith and do not need to learn about other religions at school.
If poeple who are not Christian want their children to learn another religion, that's their business, even if they are British nationals, so no descrimination on my part here, but tollerance.
But to suggest that British children of Christian parents should be excluded from learning the Christian Faith at school or that they should learn all religions present in Britain, is totally unnacceptable!
This is intollerance against the Christian Faith tout pure!
Adults have no right to suggest that children should be excluded from the Faith of our Country, which is the Christian Faith!
In fact I am not stating that Muslim chidren in Britain, regardless of their nationality, should not be allowed to attend faith schools of their own religion, although obviously the case that Howard is highlighting is unnacceptable and, I would hope, an exception.
I have nothing against Muslims learning their own religion in Britain or elsewhere.
But to attempt to close down the Christian Faith to children who are not Muslims is totally unnacceptable, it is an attempt at tyrany, and atheism. You will find that if anyone dared to go that road by law, there would be a great protest of Christian people in Britain.
When I went to school, the Christian Faith was taught to us. If people started abolishing the Chhrisrtian Faith in British schools, they would be likely to try to abolish Islam in Muslim countries if they could. However, a faith is better than no faith, and I reckon that Christians and Muslims all over the world would oppose any attemt to abolish God from our lives and from the lives of our children and of their children and of future generations.
I haven't got any problems with Muslims learning their religion, I have a problem when people suggest that our Christian Faith should be cancelled from school and from the lives of children, and that are NOT Muslims who try doing this!
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
15 February 2011
14:0592731#20
cor quite a hreavy subject
having gone through the catholic system in all my school life, i have very strong views on schools and how they treat pupils.
I have on here highlighted many brutal things that i saw in school which was wrong and certainly there is no way those nuns could be religious.
and thats the christian faith.
of course its not just christians, as stated there are problems ref muslims, the church of england has as many issues, then all the others mormons brain washing etc all have issues.
So lets tolerate yes, but pupil brutality no m afraid that has to stop, there has to be clear guidlines as to how to correct children.
having seen what i have seen over the years first hand then its nowt to do with pc but more to do with child protection.
I saw some horrific stuff inb my time at school which i woukld hate to see happen to anyone else.
So its correct to look at this particular faith, but not in isolation
if this faith is looked into, thren so should all the others be.
in the interests of farness
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS