howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
must be the funniest thing in ages to refer to the s.a.s. as diplomats but as mr hague describes them as such it must be true.
they have been released from their capture in libya and are on their way home.
this must be the worst foreign affairs incident since suez.
the colonel maintains that the west are behind the insurrection in order to colonise libya and commandeer the oil.
everyone around the world think as colonists to be english(british), so we prove them and the colonel correct.
gadaffi gets to be proved right, the rebels are livid that we have given political ammunition to their enemy, and we now look completely ineffectual.
mr hague must go now before any more damage is done.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Howard, I 100% agree with you,S.A.S are the best in the world at what they do,and this will take some living down. He was never agood leader when he was the party leader,that is why he had to go then,and he is no better now.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
it gets worse vic, he claims that he will send another "diplomatic" out there soon.
seems clear to me that it is best that there is no u.k. involvement.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Well he should be the one to go,best place for him.
We should stay out of this one ,we have more than we can handel at this time,they have cut back the Army, the R.N,and the R.A,F to the bone,but still asking them to take on more.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Indeed the rebels aprehended the eight SAS soldiers and a diplomat, and sent them back to Britain.
They do not want any military involvement from Britain, have not asked for it; this should keep us all assured now that we will not be blundering into anything a la blaire.
I bet Barry won't be calling me ignorant on this one!
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Alas alas its true, Mr Hague is not having a good Libyan War. We had the earlier debacle from him saying Gaddafi was in Venezuela, then we had him unable to get the planes off the ground to rescue our citizens, now we have him fronting what must be the worst SAS PR image tarnation ever. Some newspapers say they were arrested by farmers despite being heavily armed... some stories say there was one young diplomat with them..cough!
The odd thing is, as was pointed out by the BBC, HMS Cumberland sailed into the harbour later the same day ie yesterday and from there any diplomat can just get a taxi into town. Oh dear! embarassing.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
This was a diplomatic mission and the SAS were only acting as escorts. For them to open fire on the innocent farmers would have not exactly been sensible and would have been totally counter to what they would have wanted to achieve. It seems the diplomats (probably MI6) were trying to make contact with a particular rebel leader in that region and that leader did not want any contact. From what I read though only 4 were SAS and the others MI6 and diplomats (one a local MI6 agent).
This hardly tarnishes the SAS image as you suggest PaulB, it would have been tarnished though if they had killed innocent farmers.
There is likely to be a lot that we dont know about this and never will.
I do agree though that the government has not exactly covered itself in glory over this matter (the whole Libyan issue that is). A lot of questions need to be asked in goverment about the advice they are getting.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I don't think blame should be heaped upon advisers, Barry. When one takes advice, one should not act on it unless one instinctively knows it to be right and a minister whose instincts are poor will have a short career.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I am not suggesting that Peter. The Ministers must take any blame because they make the decisions, but their actions are always informed by advice and they must question much of the advice they have received.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
The problem is, I believe, that at times like this ministers want to be seen to be 'doing something'. And the opposition will not let government sit on its hands for long. Ill-thought-out strategies get hastily implemented with a cavalier disregard for the downsides. This operation was pure Keystone Cops.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Superficially it seems that way Peter but as in all operations like this, it is what we dont know and probably never will know, is what is most intriguing.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
You are right Barry but the fact that we heard about it at all means that there was a monumental balls-up.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
Embarrassing to say the least, but as you say they don't want any military help except in the form of a no-fly zone. It would have been easier to get a cab
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
interesting to read the account given by the farmer, he watched in disbelief as the helicopter landed then these people came out and started unloading loads of crates and cases, he then made himself known and asked them to stop what they were doing and put their hands on their head.
he alerted his friends who came along and offered them bread, milk and eggs, true arab hospitality.
it all reminded me of that episode of dads army when they captured a u boat crew.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
In Libya there are definitely two sides, it is a civil war, and Col. Gedaffi has the support of a part of the Libian population. He has the general support of a number of tribes, and some support that goes beyond tribal membership. For example, one British reporter from Benghazi has noted that not all people in that city support the rebels.
The same reporter notes that the rebels are forming into distinct groups, and that according to some local people, some Afghans have arrived on the scene, whereas in one Libyan town in eastern Libya, the local rebels have closed down all social clubs and cinemas for religious reasons.
Col. Gedaffi insists that Bin Laden is involved, and he seems to be warning the West not to overlook this. Mr. Hague's one-sided statements against Col. Gedaffi are inappropriate and undiplomatic.
The absence of the most elementary rules of diplomacy in his comments make it harder for Britain to propose any mediation betwen the warring sides.
Then there is the idea of sending the Black Watch into Western Libya to evacuate refugees who might be held up by Col. Gedaffi's troops and hindered from leaving the country.
Total tosh! Unconfirmed reports like that are of no use, as the Colenell's troops are not known to be hindering refugees in any way either from leaving or from staying.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
all reports indicate that is not a civil war, more of a civil uprising.
it is now reported that mr hague had given authorisation for the keystone cops episode.
sounds like he has been hung out to dry, i find it hard to believe that the prime minister knew nothing of this.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
The report also said that the matter had been discussed with no 10 (the version I read did) Howard so the hanging out to dry does not look likely.
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
I wonder if their Boss said, "Don't tell 'em your name Pike"
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
also in that wonderful episode was when james beck was going to collect 12 portions of cod and chips, and the commander announced in superior tones "make that 11, i vill haf plaice".
barry
of course it was discussed at no.10 there was no way that the prime minister was going to take the blame, the defence correspondent on the b.b.c. descried the whole thing as being like a scene from "johnny english".
Guest 663- Registered: 20 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,136
O dear Mr Hague you clearly got that little exercise very wrong
