Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#1
Quote below taken from Financial Times via ConHome (no link due to paywall)
""Mr Elphicke, backed by Dame Vera Lynn, who sang the second world war song "The White Cliffs of Dover", argued that the port should instead become a "people's port". Townspeople would buy shares and have a big say in its operation. Mr Hammond said the arguments of the "people's port" campaigners had "found favour" with the government and the reopening of the consultation would allow a re-examination of communities' role in trust port privatisations. Future privatisations would be considered only if there was "significant community participation".
Looks promising - please get on with it and lets have a proper announcement!!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#2
in other words they still cnnot make up their minds.
the statement said basically nothing and will do even less to encourage investment in the town and district.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#3
Thanks to the paywall I do not know the full story. I will pop out and see if I can pick up a copy later as there may well be more to it Howard. I think the problem they have comes down to EU competition law, yes the politicians favour PP but the Sir Humphreys always have a problem accepting new ways of doing things and have a culture of saying why nothing can be done rather than how. So the likely delay is over Ministers trying to find there way around the EU monster.
The heading of this thread was in tune with the heading on ConHome who have read the article and not my interpretation.
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
#4
Barry
they are only likely to announce that they are reopening the consultation. I note the FT article also says "An official said it was still possible a foreign investor could take over a port, provided there was sufficient local participation". Not a done deal then.
One would hope that there would be a fearless and rigorous scrutiny brought to bear on this process by the government, unswayed by big business, or political favour and determined to do what is best for the port. That Mr Hammond said "I wouldn't dream of going into battle with Dame Vera Lynn.." leaves me wondering how robust the process might be. Heaven forbid the port bring Rolf Harris on board for their campaign - all will surely be lost!!
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#5
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#6
#7
On KMFM on Friday the harbor board said it was spending 86 million Pounds on the docks so were has this money suddenly come from and why now.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#8
That money has been in their annual budget for some years now. But now that the linkspans are starting to get ragged, they are going to have to spend it. That press release was a rehash of old news, released, I presume, on the advice of their spin doctors.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#9
i am intrigued that the harbour board called this meeting so long ago, almost as if they knew that any decision was not imminent.
the more i read the articles in the links here, the more i think that my original view on the port being sold to buyers with a proviso that there is a benefit to dover was correct.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#10
It's an annual event, Howard.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#11
yes peter but the agenda was announced a few weeks back.
you were there tonight, was it a normal consultative meeting or a stage managed "touchy feely community thing"?
at previous meetings the stress has always been on that anything d.h.b. do for the town is a bonus and we should be grateful.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#12
Stage managed, the timing of the Minister's announcement has them a little discombobulated. The Chairman welcomed the criterion requiring a major community involvement in any successful bid and said that was what they had really wanted all along.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#13
i must admit to being impressed how mr mountford kept a straight face through his stand up routine.
put jack dee and the late les dawson to shame.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#14
They are indeed a class act when it comes to presentation. Everything was very slick.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
#15
The Guardian article to which Barry kindly provided a link has another link at the end to an article entitled "The coalition holds Britain's cultural fabric in contempt":
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/01/big-society-free-market-neoliberalism?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487
This article may provide a clue as to why the privatisation issue is dragging on so interminably. It was written the day before the debate on the future of the Forestry Commission and we all know what happened there. The nation rose as one to demand that our forests remained in national ownership. Could it be that the government is concerned that acceding to privatisation may elicit a similar vociferous backlash resulting in yet another embarassing U-turn?
If they are clued-up then they will know that in both the last general elections the people of Dover voted overwhelmingly to have Dover remain as a Trust Port and that Charlie Elphicke campaigned on that very platform in the certain knowledge that he would not get elected if he showed his true colours and opposed it.
It was only after the election that he suddenly came up with a fully fledged privatisation plan. Little by little we found out that the plan had in fact been conceived by Neil Wiggins whose company IVOPS specialises in offering advice on port operations and that the Peoples Port was in fact WigginsPort embellished with carrots to tempt the downtrodden denizens of Dover.
Will the government plump for WigginsPort or will it go for the professional DHB plan or for another as yet unknown, or will it play safe and retain the port as a Trust Port? They will know that the latter is unquestionably the best option for the port itself, with all revenues reinvested in the port. They will also know that the other main candidate for privatisation, the major oil and gas energy hub of Milford Haven, long ago let it be known that it wished to retain Trust Port status.
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
#16
So yet another consultation period begins with slightly modified requirements re community and port employee participation which the DHB bid has incorporated from the beginning so would not imagine that it will trouble them. They stated that the proposed £10m initial payment to the community plus the ongoing benefits will all come out of the sum paid to government so it is up to the latter whether they accept it. Perhaps these modified requirements are aimed at new bidders.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speechesstatements/statements/hammond20110516
Incidentally, in addition to the top table at the Ark as shown above, there was another table for four additional members of the board. I was very interested to see that one of these was the legendary railwayman Chris Green who has been described as "the best chairman BR never had." It was he who created Network Southeast then ran InterCity and has since managed ScotRail and Virgin Trains, amongst a host of other things.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#17
Actually the DHB scheme fails to tick 2 key boxes in the new criteria.
Firstly there is the requirement for the community involvement to extend to the governance and strategic direction of the port. This is not at all envisaged in the transfer scheme; rather the reverse, in fact, as they propose that a DHB board member sit on the Community Trust!
Secondly the competition criterion; this will be a particularly tough one for them unless an equity participation is offered to the ferry companies. Dover has a near-monopoly on the short sea and the Minister will wish to see that monopoly watered down in private hands. Dr Goldfield, in his reply to Robin Wilkins, was adamant that customers remain customers.
Additionally, Roger Mountford's contention (in response to David Hannent's question) that the cost of community participation is to be borne by government is just plain incorrect.
The
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#18
I think this has a long wayt to run, and like the peoples port who ha many unanswered questions, the DHB appear to have the same problem.
i wouldn't be over convinced as a peoples port supporter that the govt is lesterning and that you have any advantage.
This will come own to ability but more so money, and i suspect this saga has a long way to run.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#19
no doubt there will be consultation period about the present consultation period, the government are very vague about "local involvement" so they will have get out clauses for any final decision they make.
meanwhile dover stagnates with potential investors waiting for a decision.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#20
Both DPPT and the DHB have presented many of the answers to those questions to the minister in confidential papers supporting their respective pitches. Answers to questions such as Who wants to buy the port? and Who is funding the DPPT must of necessity remain confidential until we know on which side the minister will come down. The minister has the answers to those questions and his decision will be based on that and many other factors. But Keith is right, the struggle has only reached the end of the beginning.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
