Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
27 September 2008
09:036672#1
Street Scene
In one of his rare but informative postings our good friend Nigel, in his usual modest manner, included a throw-away comment about being involved in something called 'Street Scene'. As this is actually quite an important initiative for Dover we thought that it might be nice to expand on this a little and see what sort of feedback the good people of the forum would like to throw at it.
The idea of 'Street Scene is to look at all aspects of the look of our streets from signage and street furniture to litter and the less desirable inhabitants of those streets. It is a bold idea from DDC, although other agencies have tried similar schemes in the past, and one we feel deserves to be supported by the town and Town Council. Nigel has said that he is working on the Board and the Team for this initiative (whatever the difference is and we are sure he will explain) and we have to let him know that, when it comes to Dover DDC do not have to do it alone. We all want to see the best for the town and we are here to help.
Coming up in October there is a Neighbourhood Forum meeting on this issue, where the public are welcome to come along and have their say.
Date to follow.
Let's see your comments.
Chris Precious
Jan Tranter
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
27 September 2008
09:096673#2
Another chance to see Nigel's(Cllr Nigel Collor) post thats referred to above...a post originally on the 'Major Regeneration' thread.
.......................
24 September 2008 - 8:20am Nigel Collor.
#23
Good job some of us think positively about developing this excellent town we have that is full of prospects - maybe instead of being negative others should be listening to the local radio news, etc. seeing how many outside agencies are getting involved in developing Dover.
Negativity on a public forum, often by the same old few, can ruin some of the constructive work that a number of us are doing - recent editorial in the Dover Mercury. There could be a motive here as if things don't move forward, the Negys, could say they were right all along and Dover will be left as the same old place that I grew up in and will still not have some of the facilities that others enjoy and our community in general richly deserves. Anyone who wants to be a Dover Negy, can be one, but it won't stop the rest of us who want to see Dover develop carrying on with the work.
I won't go into how much our efforts are personally costing a few of us as you would think we are bonkers to be putting our own money into it - or are we the ones who really care about our area and giving our youngsters a good future with good local job prospects (Don't get hung up on supermarket jobs). There are new diploma courses available, with more to come. Curicula are in the process of being set up to enable young people to obtain qualificationsfor jobs in Dover now and for those that will be available as the extensive regeneration moves ahead that will provide overall some 5,000 new jobs
The bigger picture needs to be looked at - latest in the list of positive document I have seen is the new Dover Town Council Corporate Plan.
So being positive further:
Just yesterday, English Heritage announced £5 millions investment at Dover Castle - unquestionably the main tourist attraction in Dover - this all falls in with DDC, Dover Pride, KCC and others involved in the regeneration work.
Fact: Dover Castle approx 350,000 visitors a year (They are hoping to double that) all coming by coach mainly driving in from the Guston roundabot and going out the same way - we need to encourage them into town and this is the overall aim - don't get hung up on one development - it was always said that DTIZ was just the start.
Fact: De Bradelli Wharf approx 850,000 visitors a year - we need to get these people into the centre of the town too.
New Marina and dockside development to compliment the Terminal 2 introduction linked by a Landbridge onto the other side of Townwall Street near to the Bench Street underpass.
Some eager eyed passers by, following the photo at the bus garage (That should be down by 3rd November), may have seen me standing outside the now closed Britannia in Townwall Street on Monday afternoon with two DDC Officers and others - DDC has just completed the purchase of this building in partnership with English Partnerships as part of the extended development to compliment the DTIZ 'Starter for ten' - all moving forward slowly but surely.
Historic towns such as Dover are not easy to develop as every time you dig a hole there is a 'dig' looking for ancient items - all part of our valued history and needs to be 'unearthed' but it does add to development costs and delays in constuction.
There are some untrue statements made above as a number of parties are in discussions to move the DTIZ forward - I can't say more on that for legal and confidentiality reasons.
DDC already own both Centurian House and Dophin House in the area too.
As Sue has indicated above, one project I am working on with DDC Officers is a Street Scene Project that will be presented as part of the consultation at the next Dover Town Neighbourhood Forum meeting at the Town Council offices on Monday 13th October commencing at 6pm for 6.30pm.
Yes, in Dover, the iconic part will be when the demolition crew move in on Burlington House and the buildings beneath it - it has always been accepted that this will take some time and we are likely to see movement on the Woolcomber Street/Townwall Street corner first or maybe some other part of this extensive development. I assume that you still want your mobile phones to work so would like the numerous antennea moved from the roof of Burlingtin House before it is dropped.
Of course, we are also working on a number of other small projects throughout the District - some are completed, some have contractors on site, some are being designed and tendered for, and others are in the consideration and feasibility box - there are too many to list.
Finally, there is some scaremongering going on that residents are being moved out of the Godwyne Close flats backing onto Maison Dieu Road as part of a development - this is entirely unfounded and needs quashing immediately as there are a nunber of elderly people living there who could unnecessarily experience emotional difficulties through this.
Maybe when I get time, I'll list everything I am working on and let you know.
Guest 663- Registered: 20 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,136
27 September 2008
10:486676#3
The date for that Neigbourhood meeting is the 13th oct 6 30 town council offices, so come along and have your say.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
27 September 2008
15:486688#4
Thanks Nigel and Jan.
Street Scene is one of the most important aspects of Dover - for residents and visitors alike.
Regeneration and all the associated development is great and very necessary, but there isn't any one on the "ground-floor" looking after the Town and its businesses.
Every Town has closed shops, but when those in Dover close, they are left in a really disgraceful state, totally unnecessary too.
Most of the shops fronts in Dover look O.K. - clean and tidy, but you only have to look upwards at the floors above the shops, to see how dilapidated the buildings are - other Towns don't stand for it, they get it sorted.
Crime in shops here is relatively low and the DPAC phones are very useful, but every business should have a phone, or at least every other business - maybe sharing the phones and the cost would be an idea; certainly offering a discount for membership would help.
More visible police officers and PCSO's walking around the Town Centre would also help and give a good sense of security for people, whether from theft or violence.
Floral displays and hanging baskets - there are winter as well as summer flowing plants that could be put up all year round, it would certainly make Dover look brighter.
Tyrone and the other street cleaners work very hard to pick up the litter that the lazy people just chuck on the ground. Restoring a sense of Pride in the Town is what we should all be aiming for.
Business welfare is a very important issue because if we don't care about the businesses, we very soon won't have any - use them or lose them. With business welfare, it also includes things like the cost of car-parking and its affect on trade; also the high level of business rates - all businesses are trading far below what their business rates would suggest; there is also a serious inequity as regards the areas of Dover Town and their valuation.
As I said at the beginning, regeneration is very important, but don't forget the ground floor.
Roger
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
27 September 2008
17:226694#5
So what is it exactly?
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
27 September 2008
17:496695#6
Roger
You are right that many buildings in Dover need some work on them to bring them back into good repair; this is within the DCC's power to deal with, as they can issue formal notices to maintain.
They could start with the properties owned by Municipal Charities on London Road that are in a shocking state, all for the want of some simple maintenance over the years; there are no valid excuses for this. There are other premises that they should also serve enforcement notices on including many on the High Street and down through to Pencester & Market Square.
As for the empty shops I know for a fact that LRCF have made suggestions regarding using them as art displays for local artists and/or schools - something that is perfectly viable for those shops owned by the council or associated bodies. I know this was put to Municipal Charities for instance and the LRCF is still waiting for a response...
Regarding flowers, didn't DTC have a budget for this once? what happened to it? this is something that a town centre management company should be organising - oh of course ours went bust...
Finally, you are right the people of Dover need to use what shops and facilities we have if we are ever to encourage new retailers etc. to come into the town
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
27 September 2008
18:476696#7
Changing the subject slightly.hopefully if the weather holds a new Mural will be painted in Dover by Friday next week.The footpath behind the Kings Hall has had Graffiti on it for up to 4 years,and after trying to get DDC to do something about it and failing we have taken things in to our own hands.
Alison Beaumont the Community Warden in Tower Hamlets asked me to help and after talking to a school in Dover and it failing thru starting again St Edmunds Students are painting a Mural on the Garage of Redstones at the top of De Burg Hill,this will be a part of the Students art examination.
The paint is being paid for by KCC Councillor Gordon Cowans Sponsoring it and I am awarding the Students a prize for the design,the Mayor of Dover Cllr Diane Smallwood will cut the ribbon next Friday at 15.00 subject to the rain holding off and the wall will be treated with anti-Graffiti paint .
This shows multi agency working,using Cllrs P.C.S.O's Community Wardens Schools and members of the public,you will notice I did not mention DDC as still after meetings with them and me pushing all I got back was it is not in our remit,or the Graffiti machine has broken down.
Come up next Friday and have a look.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
27 September 2008
19:106697#8
I must say a lot of talking going on, it all should be down in aweek or two or three or four, maybe one year or two or three or four.
And when it is all down and I mean all down,when will we see the new buildings going up.one year, or two ,or three, or four or more.
I am not talking negligence just fact, again it will be the planning office of the D.D.C. holding it all up not the CLLR.
Mr Walkins who I have alot of time with needs to look at his own planners and then and only then will it all move along and happen.
I remain yours faithfully VIC mATCHAM
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
27 September 2008
23:576705#9
Thank you John for your positive, and informative, news. The point of 'Street Scene' is to look at the street level and, unfortunately, this does not include the buildings. The point that Jan and I were making here is that this is something that we should be glad DDC are finally acknowledging and that at least two of the councillors on DTC are prepared to support, follow and push for action on. We do know that there are a lot of problems and that a lot of agencies need to be involved and between us we will do what we can from our side. Johns posting tells you that there are others prepared to work for this as well. We would all like to see everything done at once but realistically it is not going to happen and this will not be helped, I am talking to you here Vic, by some sidetracking each initiative onto unrelated matters. Street Scene could be a positive move and we want to see it supported and other councils/agencies/organisations given the chance to help and promote it.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
28 September 2008
07:366710#10
Thanks John - a good example indeed of multi-agences working together.
Thanks Chris for a bit of clarification on what "street-scene" means, or at least the aspect of it, that is to receive attention.
Is this part of a Dover Pride initiative do you know ? not being connected with DP, it seems that things will only get done if thought up by them.
A couple of years ago they employed a firm of Consultants to look at Dover from many aspects, the main one being connecting the Castle to the Town and how visitors to the Castle could be encouraged to also visit the Town; they also looked at the tourism issue.
I believe that that consultation is what brought on the cable car.
On the tourism side, two "quick-fixes" were suggested, an urgent return of the tour bus and new "finger-signs" around town, in French and English.
The Town Council were I believe at that time, involved with Calais on the Interrreg initiative and were working on those finger-signs (what happended to that I wonder); DP thought the return of the tour bus would be too expensive !! - can you believe that ?
Now I understand there are two intitiaves to bring back the tour bus next year with two different tour-bus companies.
A bit like buses themselves, you wait ages them, then two turn up !!
Roger
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
28 September 2008
07:386711#11
On an unrelated subject - Vic I sent you a couple of emails in the last few weeks and you haven't replied to either of them.
If you haven't deleted them, could you respond please.
Roger
28 September 2008
18:436727#12
For information - I was involved in the Intereg issue you mentioned Roger and the signage bit of it was what we wanted. I am often asked at the junction of russell/castle sts where the town centre is!!!!
The signage was handled by DDC and we eventually were told it wasnt possible to put up multilingual signs as we didnt have enough visitors or some such nonsense. We had been negotiating for 2 years before we were told and it was one of the reasons why we abandoned trying to get further grants from europe at that time. The objection came from the highways I believe.
D
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
28 September 2008
19:566731#13
over the past 2 or 3 years i have heard the french language being spoken more and more.
how much do multilingual signs actually cost?
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
28 September 2008
20:166733#14
I still don't understand what is happening.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
28 September 2008
20:556736#15
you will when the multilingual signs come in.
i am waiting for the gobbledegook translation.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
29 September 2008
11:126751#16
Thanks David - I didn't know that.
If Highways objected, that's crazy because "finger-signs" are for pavements and walkways, not roads; I know KCC Highways look after pavements (or are supposed to), but why object ?
Not enough French people is a silly argument, especially as we are so close.
I don't know if it's to late David, but if not and you have any (further) details, I'm happy to follow it up.
Roger
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#17
DT I have lots of sympathy for your plight, to fully understand what is happening you have to live in that unfathomable twilight zone occupied by councillors. The Luke Skywalkers of DDC and DTC will have lots of meetings on this anyway...
But I think its a new general effort to improve the look of aspects of the town. Its a tall order, because strolling back from the shops this morning one is affronted by closed estate agents, abandoned post offices, boarded up shop fronts of long standing, and the like. But good luck to the initiative though seriously. If they can somehow improve how the town looks then good luck to them.
One remembers the fond sight of young David Hannent, half way up a ladder in Castle St, with sprinkler in hand, pouring water on everybody and everything, but managing somehow to hit the dangling flower baskets at the same time. I speak of course of the 'famous' flower baskets of Castle St...which certainly improved the look at the time.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#18
I might be in a minority here, but im less in favour of the street scene, unless something is done on he loutish behaviour that goes with it.
IV WITNESSED IT so many times passing the 8 bells( and there inside a fence)
why do the French do it so well?
So I need more convincing
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#19
Guest 663- Registered: 20 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,136
#20
I will agree with what has been said totally and its up to the likes of us concillor's to get the power's that be OFF THEIR BACKSIDES TO DO SOMETHING
