Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 September 2009
07:3928399#1
during the General election......
The big question though, will Gordon Brown agree?
Mandelson recently indicated he would but I doubt it. Sky has said a debate will proceed anyway with an 'empty chair' for any party leader who refuses to participate.
It will be interesting to see how this develops.
A debate will enliven the election and engage the public more than 'party political broadcasts', poster advertising or photo ops. For too long the public have been patronised with too much sound bite politics. Hopefully a well conducted debate will help to boost public participation.
More about it here:
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2009/09/david-cameron-agrees-to-sky-newss-terms-for-a-general-election-leaders-debate.htmlDT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
2 September 2009
08:1428400#2
Well conducted by 'Sky News', I don't think so. Empty chairs? That doesn't seem the basis of serious grown up debate, but more like playground taunting: "If you don't turn up to to fight me, you're obviously a wimp!" ...and everyone can see that with this rather obvious visual prop...an empty chair. High brow stuff!
Murdoch is hardly impartial and now the wind of change has swung to the Conservatives he changes allegiance to the winning side, although both Blair and Thatcher were both firmly on the right.
Barry, I hold the same contempt for the bias of Sky as you do for the BBC. Whatever poltical/social agenda at least it is not in the control of one person, accountable only to himself!
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
2 September 2009
08:1828401#3
Its been so long since there was a debate of this nature on television that I doubt if a substantial body of the voting public will have ever seen one, so will not be able to offer an opinion either way. We know that the Americans do it but I cant remember anything of such a sparkling nature here for quite a while or am I having a memory lapse (which is quite possible)...although following a bit of a headscratch I remember something with Nick Clegg in it, but as you can see it didnt linger in the memory.
Debates of course are always of much more value to the opposing side as they have nothing at all to lose. The government side on the other hand has much to lose, if it makes one slip the national headline writers will beat them about the head with it for weeks after...thereby losing the initiative with the result being the inevitable hammering in the opinion polls. Although politicians tell you they dont worry about opinion polls, dont you beleive it!!
I would certainly agree with BarryW, a debate would be better than a party political broadcast as on the whole they are mindnumbingly awful...except in the US where they kick seven bells out of each other. Not very nice you might think and you would be right, but...not sleep inducing either.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 September 2009
08:1928402#4
Then Brown need only agree to the debate DT, no empty chair and he will have he say on an equal footing with DC and presumably Clegg.
PaulB - it is usually the 'top dog' in the polls that refuses a debate with most to lose and the underdog calling for one. DC is well ahead in the polls and he has agreed to a debate. Brown will be the underdog, no question about that, so I would have thought that a debate is more likely this time, which would set a future trend. Unless Brown chickens out, which based on his track record is not unlikely.
What you remember from the last election was each Party Leader being given a question and answer session with journalists on Sky News. It was not a debate as they were not all together, three seperate programmes.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 September 2009
08:3028403#5
Two interesting comments on this so far - some people seem to think Brown cant refuse or maybe he will send Mandelson in his place. If he does the latter what will that say about our would be PM and how would the public react? Interesting developments to come I expect.
http://davidjonesblog.com/2009/09/02/an-offer-not-even-gordon-can-refuse/
http://order-order.com/2009/09/02/general-election-tv-debate-campaign/
David Frost chairing it.......
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
2 September 2009
09:0528404#6
to be honest barryw it would bore me to tears,watching two grown men having a playground tit for tat on the tv.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 September 2009
11:3028406#7
Clegg has now also agreed to it.
Just Brown now - typical of him to dither and procrastinate.
Brian - you dont have to watch if you dont want to, I suspect though that it will be a big tv event that most people will want to watch.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
2 September 2009
12:0628407#8
i suspect that the viewing figures will be much the usual for sky news, not very high.
mr clegg would have to be the keenest, hardly anyone knows who he is at present.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 September 2009
12:2028409#9
Read the blogs, it is expected to be co-hosted in turn by ITV, BBC and Sky, also with feeds to the other broadcasters (suggested by Sky). Anyway, these days with Sky News on both Freeview and Sky itself, most people are capable of seeing the programme and this debate will get massive publicity, it will get a large audience make no mistake.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 September 2009
15:3628411#10
Adam Boulton has confirmed, with two of the three Party leaders agreeing to the debate, while Brown dithers, it will go ahead or not, regardless of whether Brown (or whatever 'leader' Labour has at the time) is present.
Ladbrokes have opened a book on who will chair the debate. If, unlike me, you are of a betting dispositon and want a flutter here are the odds:
6/4 - Sir David Frost
5/1 - Jeremy Paxman
10/1 - Adam Boulton, David Dimbleby,
16/1 - Kirsty Young
20/1 - John Humphries
25/1 - Andrew Marr
33/1 - Jeremy Vine, Justin Webb, Nick Robinson, Jonathan Dimbleby
50/1 - Andrew Neil, Evan Davis, Huw Edwards, Jon Snow, Tom Bradby
100/1 - Andrew Rawnsley, John Pienaar, Nicky Campbell, Sir Trevor McDonald
250/1 - Piers Morgan
500/1 - Ant and Dec
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
2 September 2009
16:1328413#11
barryw,thankfully i dont have sky.if i did it would make the murdoch empire a little richer no doubt.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 September 2009
17:1928414#12
Nor do I, Brian - Freeview is enough for me (plus Top Up TV) and Sky News is on Freeview.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
2 September 2009
17:3028416#13
interesting that the two opposition leaders are keen on this debate, boy dave is in pole position.
normally this would mean that he would try to avoid it.
is he expecting a red recovery in the next 9 months?
sounds very much like it.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
2 September 2009
18:5928418#14
maybe so barry but wont watch it,i would like to keep my sanaty in tact thankyou.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 September 2009
20:1928420#15
No Howard - he is confident in his case and wants to properly finish off Labour. Hopefully they will never recover from the drubbing they deserve.
He is also interested in trying to revitalise our ailing political system. More engagement with the electorate is one thing that can help and a leaders debate, to bring us into line with virtually every other democracy, is a contribution to it.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
2 September 2009
22:1228421#16
norman tebbitt said the same many years ago, nett result = 12 consecutive years of red governemnt so far.a
taking your argument a step further barry, how would democracy work if there were only your lot and the sandal and floppy jumper wearing party?
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
3 September 2009
04:4628422#17
I'll have a quid on Sir Trevor McDonut....I'm sick of these rude,continually interrupting interviewers who are only on TV to promote themselves.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
3 September 2009
07:2428423#18
BarryW you have answered your own question in post 15 as to why the Labour Government are or would be reluctant to take part in this debate. The 'drubbing' should they get one would leave them in an unrecoverable situation. You have said that there yourself, so like I said earlier they are on a hiding to nothing. Although Cameron is ahead in the Opinion Polls its not quite the same thing. It doesnt read the same way with the mass public. If Cameron had a bad debate, its unlikely as he has the wind very much in his sails, but if he did he would slip 2 or 4 points in the polls, which we have seen before, but the loss wouldnt be as it could be for a government. One more shot in the foot would finish them completely...so the rule would be dont put yourself in a position where you are likely to shoot yourself in the foot.
Any government over a period of time, no matter what the hue, succeeds in irritating and alienating half the polulation...so from the off is in the uncomfortable position of having given the opposition a whole series of monstrous brickbats to beat them with. A considerable disadvantage in a televised debate.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
3 September 2009
07:5128427#19
This one looks like happening though PaulB. It may be Brown's one chance of reducing the scale of losses, a forelorn hope I suspect, but all he has to do is achieve better than the low expectations people have for him. There have been rumours that he was going to issue a challenge at the Labour Conference but that approach has been scotched now and either he will not take part and look weak or he will accept the Sky terms as DC and Clegg have done and hope for the best. I suspect he is on to a loser whatever he decides.
Howard - I am not sure what you are talking about regarding Tebbit. As far as your other comment, I believe we need another re-alignment in British politics and its time for Labour to recede to a 'third party' status (or worse) with a new left-centre force replacing it as an alternative to the Conservatives, yes, the LibDems perhaps. Given the way every single Labour Government we have had has failed in economic disaster, its what they deserve.
Sid Pollitt
3 September 2009
09:5528432#20
I cant see any harm in a debate but it'll probably be boring and punch and judy Cameron will be a little infantile no doubt. I also think the Tory opposition do this country a dis-service when they let Cameron empty chair PMQs in the Commons week after week.
