Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
14 February 2009
08:4615417#1
Hark! my friends..watch out...Beelzebub is creeping up your driveway, in through your kitchen window, into your bedroom, and into your soul. All is lost. In a week when we have 13 year old fathers and with 14 year old mothers almost commonplace, the battle for sanity and morality is lost. The devil is in our midst.
No I havent gone all evangelical, nor have I gone all religious, but I despair at our direction. We are fast-tracking to Hell in our Handcarts! Were the Conservatives right all along? Is society broken beyond repair? A society that allows a system to exist where 13 year olds can become fathers is reminiscent of the worst horrors of Soddom and Gommorah.
Nowadays we are all, or almost all, agnostic. We dont believe in anything. We dont believe in God. We dont beleive in the banking system, we dont believe in our leaders...we believe in nothing. But once upon a time didnt religion give us a blueprint for society. It kept us on the straight and narrow. We did not try to get away with this, or get away with that, because we knew God saw all. We knew hell and damnation was coming if we broke the moral rules.
Sadly that blueprint has been torn away, ignored, abandoned...but what has replaced it. Nothing! a free for all!
But its not a better place.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
14 February 2009
09:4315425#2
I agree with a lot of what you say Paul, but I'm not sure it's because the Church (Catholic or C of E) don't reach (out to) us anymore.
There is no moral guidance any more from anyone - church, parents, schools, governmernt, peers or any one; it certainly seems to be a free-for-all "do what you want" society.
These new parents are still kids, probably treating the baby as a doll.
Why is nothing "wrong" any more ?
Roger
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
14 February 2009
11:0915437#3
Both PaulB & Roger are right, many people of this country do seem to have lost the way, and there are many reasons why. The do-gooders have to share the blame and I'm sure you all know who else, that I believe must take her share of the blame.
But too much blaming and bringing up the past, is not helping to sort this mess out. Everyone needs to put their differences aside and pull together and turn things around. I keep saying it but I believe it to be true, we need common sense and balance brought back into the equation. Having different beliefs does not mean we cant work together for the sake of others.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
14 February 2009
11:5115444#4
It is a sad fact that well-meant intentions have taken away any sense of responsibility. Thanks to an overactive sense of not wishing to offend, stifle, hinder or cause doubt we are left with a system that sees words such as bad, no, naughty or wrong as unacceptable. Because of this there is no balance in the way children are being brought up, no sense of definitive right or wrong just right or not really right. Negatives are required to reinforce the postives and we have been steadily stripping them from our society. We need to get back to being able to say clearly when something is wrong or no-one will ever learn what is realy right.
"In nature there are neither rewards nor punishments - there are consequences." Robert G Ingersoll American Agnostic 1833 - 1899
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
14 February 2009
12:5015448#5
looks like apathy has set in,how low long before anakey sets in to.
14 February 2009
13:1515451#6
Anarchy is at least active, apathy is intolerable!
As most of you who post here will know, I can only agree about the direction we have taken, but I also think we need to take care not to over-react to one event and remember that one 13 year old father (God help us!!) isn't a crowd. Mistakes and accidents happen, and have always happened. It's only a century or two ago that children were routinely born to girls under the age of 16 and caused little comment unless the girls were unmarried - at least now we do not stone/abandon/ostracize vulnerable youngsters if they do not match up to our "moral code". Clearly we need to take a step back and re-assess, but I am glad we now look after rather than abandon young people who have made errors.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
16 February 2009
10:0415546#7
I think we probably all agree that we need a return to values but Im afraid we have lost our framework to hang the values on. So it would be impossible to return to moral values when people today have no concept of what that is, when a great many of the younger ones today dont know what right and wrong is, there is only self. On top of that they think celebrity is the only status, the only value. We will be a celebrity at all cost and suffer any humiliation to get there.You see the poor, the hopeless, and the desperate paraded before our tv cameras night and day..on the endless wannabee shows. Not just the mainstream wannabee shows, but the endless other ones now on satellite channels as well. And boy do they all suffer humilation for their dream!
On the radio this morning they were talking about the celebrity status this 13 year old father has now. In his own area he is riding the crest of the celebrity wave.A media star. Journalists are tripping over their chequebooks in an effort to get to him and get the story. The kid will be rich...so it has all paid off. Others will follow in true herd style as we see on the wannabee shows..all herding towards their pointless 15 minutes. Its the new God. Hang your moral framework on that.
Guest 657- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,037
16 February 2009
11:1315549#8
It's very sad that many young people now aspire to be Wag's or rappers rather than doctors, nurses or vets etc. I'm an agony aunt on a young people's forum and I come across it on a daily basis, they think all they have to do is snare a footballer or write a song which will instantly go to no 1 and make them millions or be discovered and star in a movie or get a modeling contract. I have to explain the real world isn't like that! I have recently been helping a young girl of 13 who got pregnant and has subsequently lost her baby; her boyfriend is around the same age. No journalists are beating a path to their door for that story which I think they half expected. It's so very sad.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
16 February 2009
11:2415551#9
Can anyone remember the name of last years Big Brother winner?
This obsession with fleeting celebrity should be seen for what it is, a temporary high that will send them crashing back to reality with a sense of loss and still feeling more important than they are. Will a 13 year old have the sense to invest any gain or will he just presume that it will always be there?
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
16 February 2009
15:1415555#10
If a 16 year old lad had got a 13 year old girl pregnant wouldn't some form of an offence been committed?Statatury rape or sex with a minor etc
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
16 February 2009
15:5415556#11
'Why is nothing "wrong" any more ?' - you hit the nail on the head there, Roger.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
16 February 2009
17:2315557#12
Thanks Andrew - I think it applies to so many of today's ills.
Roger
16 February 2009
17:5215558#13
I can only agree, but I am still glad we care for and support youngsters who have troubles rather than dispose of them or ostracize them. It is often not their fault that they have had appalling examples set for them, and although obvioulsy the boundaries have to be re-set, we should not despair of them too soon or too fast. Most young people, even the most challenging, actually want to please and to be accepted.
16 February 2009
19:2015559#14
There is an issue with how much power a child has over its parent now and it is crazy.
Just recently my son witnessed a fatality of a friend and I feel he should have some counselling as he has some issues, mixed in with his teenage hormones to say the least it has been very trying. Yet when I have been for help, yes the authorities agree he may require some extra help, yet the decision becomes his, if he doesn't want it, then they don't help, and I have to still live with the difficult situation and it is so frustrating to say the very least.
The children of today know their rights, and they use them all the time, you can't smack me I will have you for abuse, you can't ground me I will have you done for imprisonment, you can't physically hold me back from going out I will have you done for abuse. They shout their rights so easily it really is a concern.
The parents are always put under scrutiny, but the bottom line is, the child has a lot more power than its parents these days and they know and use it.
16 February 2009
19:3115560#15
Tell that to the child unable to tell her teachers her Dad is raping her, or the child unable to tell his teachers his dad hits him every night. You are right that the focus is off-beam, but that shouldn't make us forget that there are reasons for the rules in the first place. The problems lie mainly arounbd the people who administer the rules, and they are often eejit social workers with little or no common sense but with the qualification to give them to power they are unable to deal with. The rules are probably ok, it's the people at fault.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
16 February 2009
20:2115564#16
Interesting point there Terri and indeed it is the case. We have all lost the real focus.
But this case of the 13 year old gets worse by the minute. The latest tonight is that the parents sold him out and sold his story to The Sun...that organ of finesse. Now they have hired publicist Max Clifford to get the most out of it.
Now two other kids of a similar age, no doubt with their accumulative eye on the financial gravy train, have come forward to claim that they are the fathers, and a DNA test is being demanded. Talk about bizarre, its all totally bizarre. is this really happening?
Okay tell me... I died last week and Im already in Hell!!
THis is all so unreal that I just cant beleive it. The TV crews tonight spoke to other young ones(girls with babies) on the street in the area and they said
"whats all the fuss about, he is only a year younger than the norm around here!!"
We're sinking into the abyss. Okay in the old days in Ireland Bern they would have sent them off to a convent but I dunno..it wasnt any worse than this. Its the pits.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
16 February 2009
21:0515566#17
it would seem that the 13 year old lad may have been stitched up.
many of our esteemed organs are bringing forward other possible culprits for the pregnancy.
surely there is only way left to solve such a serious dilemna?
no, not batman!!
i mean of course, "the jeremy kyle show".
16 February 2009
22:4515572#18
The rules are in place for a reason and I believe it was to help with the child abuse whether it be sexual, physical or emotional, but these have all be taken to extreme. It is still very obvious in recent weeks that these rules don't work as well as they are meant to, too many children are slipping through the net
I think that it is the really the parents that need to be administering rules to their children and outside agencies to help support with those rules when it's necessary.
I would say it would be money better spent if there was support for pregnant mums and dads to learn basic parenting skills. Nobody is taught parenting skills, we pick them up from our own parents/carers/grandparents and hope we are doing the right thing, but there are so many people telling you what you should and shouldn't do. It can be so confusing for a new parent, and more difficult to ask for help when you get mixed messages.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
16 February 2009
23:3715577#19
Unfortunately child care these days is more about the forms than anything else. When my son was still a baby he suffered with terrible constipation. I duly took him to the baby clinic, where they weigh the child and put the result on the graph.
"Anything else," she asked?
"He has constipation," I replied.
"Give him plenty to drink."
"He drinks like a fish."
"That's good then."
"But he is still constipated."
"Oh, I see. Well make sure he drinks lots"
I stopped going to the baby clinic and took him to a doctor instead. A couple of doses of Senacot and he was fine.
(I should add that I have seriously shortened the conversation.)
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
17 February 2009
08:0415584#20
Terrismark, those mixed messages often come from advertisers with a hidden agenda, and different parts of The Media with programmes and products to sell, often using sexualised kids and young people as an aid. It's more than just a "where's it all gone wrong" secenario - it is a deliberate and cynical manipulation of the consumer with no thought of the consequences.