Abu qatada
- 9 July 2013 11:11236826Gone, but not forgot...
"So "May reaps the rewards for getting her man" (8 July). But she is still set on leaving the European convention on human rights, because of the time it has taken to achieve this triumph. It has taken so long because successive home secretaries did not take seriously the commitment to human rights and, in particular, the right to the presumption of innocence and the right to a fair trial, even though these are also traditional British rights. Had any of them done so, they would have recognised that it would be wrong to deport Abu Qatada, who had not been convicted of any offence in the UK, to Jordan, where he had been convicted in his absence on the basis of evidence obtained under torture, without first obtaining bankable assurances from Jordan that, in a new trial, evidence obtained under torture would not be used. Had they done so, then they would have started the matter in the way in Mrs May eventually ended it, and no appeal to the European court of human rights or the UK courts would have succeeded.
David Roberts
Tollesbury, Essex
Sorry to spoil the party, but there has been no deportation. The man left voluntarily following an inter-state treaty.
Colin J Yarnley
Southwell, Nottinghamshire"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/08/sense-proportion-abu-qatada
I know Abu Qatada - he's no terrorist
Security services and politicians turned this man into an Islamic counter-terrorism myth. If only they'd talked to him instead
"The voluntary departure from Britain of Omar Othman, better known as Abu Qatada, is a triumph for the independence of the judiciary over this and previous governments' high-profile attempts to send him to face a trial in Jordan, where the evidence against him was obtained by torture. Our judiciary has safeguarded a prominent political refugee who our society chose to persecute in a disgraceful way.
Since 2007 as many as 12 senior British judges in various courts have recognised the torture origins of the evidence against him - which successive prime ministers and home secretaries have, until a few weeks ago, publicly put all their political weight into ignoring.
The US, aided by the UK, on behalf of its key ally Jordan, went so far as to kidnap UK residents Jamil el-Banna and Bisher al-Rawi on a business trip in Africa, torture them in Bagram airbase in Afghanistan, and take them to Guantánamo Bay in order to interrogate them about Othman. When those men sued the British authorities for what they had done, parliament was persuaded to create secret courts to adjudicate on secret defences...
...Our security services and politicians turned this man into an Islamic counter-terrorism myth. If instead they had chosen to talk to him, as I have many times, they would have found that the man behind the myth is a scholar with wide intellectual and cultural interests. He wrote books while he was in prison. His home is filled with books. His children have excelled at school, with help and encouragement from his daily phone calls from prison.
I have been a friend of Othman's wife and daughters for some years, and have had many opportunities to talk to him in prison, as well as some when he was at home on bail. I've been struck by his dignity and lack of bitterness over the treatment he and his family have suffered and I believe that, rather than being scapegoated, his moral standards could have been useful in engaging Muslim youth and healing the wounds in our divided society."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/07/abu-qatada-no-terroristIgnorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing. - Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
9 July 2013 11:34236829It is interesting as others have said that barryw says in the elite pigs thread that he would advise people to find the loopholes not to pay so much tax or none at all which is one thing
Now hes saying well I don't like this ruling so lets not abide by it and send him home, nowt stranger than folk!!!!!
On the actual issue itself, we do need the judges to remain neutral and the govt not to interfere, or we are on a slippery slope.
I don't think there are many posters, or indeed country wide who want this guy to stayALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS - 9 July 2013 12:01236835"I don't think there are many posters, or indeed country wide who want this guy to stay "
Why not?
Could it be that the repetition of an untruth is enough to convince sentient, conscious, thinking beings like ourselves?
Might it be that once upon a time hook-hands were things of wonder, awe and amusement and we have been robbed of a portion of our precious childhood?Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing. - 9 July 2013 12:12236837He's on trial in Jordan for crimes he allegedly committed there, that's why he's not wanted here.
- 9 July 2013 12:32236846let's have a look at the facts.
a) convicted of terrorist offences in jordan.
b) issued a fatwah ordering the killing of muslims that renounced their faith.
c) cost the taxpayer approx 3 million quid in benefits and other expenses.
d) when questioned in 2001 he was in possession of £.170,000 intended for the muhajadeen in chechnya.
e) listed by the u.n. has being on their al -qaeda sanction list. - 9 July 2013 12:42236849a)Convicted in absentia with evidence gained through torture under a system that demands that the accused prove their innocence.
b)According to the Guardian piece part-quoted above he has had nothing objectionable to say since 1990. Are we certain that we can now stand by all that we have ever said?
c)Nonsense!!!
d)some have spent billions of Dollars doing exactly the same thing. They are called US Presidents.
e) see 'd' above.Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing. - 9 July 2013 12:43236850Why don't you respect the Jordanian courts Tom, are you racist?
- 9 July 2013 12:47236851I do love Tom's "according to the Guardian"
Its Tom's Koran
- 9 July 2013 12:53236853tom
you seem to think that because governments have supported terrorist groups that it is right that we be nice to this man and his various families. - 9 July 2013 13:01236854Am I racist David? No, just right.
Howard, all along, certainly all this morning, I have asked you why it is that you have a 'down' on this man. Instead of responding you are in full-flight to let me know what I must mean.
Surely being 'nice' to others is the default setting of all reasonable people?Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing. - Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
9 July 2013 13:12236857I think Tom might be on his own seemingly supporting an enemy of the western world, I am glad he has left the protection of this country which he appeared to hate and I admit have little interest in what happens to him in the future.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
------------------------------------------------------------------- - Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
9 July 2013 16:22236870now now people lets settle down a bit and look at the facts.
1,just because jorden,the uk and a couple of other countries has branded him a terrorist dosent mean that he is.
2,if the fore said countrys said that Cameron,brown and clegg where terrorists would we be willing to deport them to a country for trial for terrorisom with the possabilaty of execution,would we then deport then. - 9 July 2013 17:43236878
- Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
9 July 2013 18:56236896the point is howard any one can branded a terrorist these days evan though they are not. - 9 July 2013 20:00236908U.S. has Mandela on terrorist list
"Nobel Peace Prize winner and international symbol of freedom Nelson Mandela is flagged on U.S. terrorist watch lists and needs special permission to visit the USA. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice calls the situation "embarrassing," and some members of Congress vow to fix it..."
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-04-30-watchlist_N.htmIgnorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing. - 9 July 2013 20:02236910One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
- 9 July 2013 20:40236913up to a point barry but a freedom fighter stays in their own country to achieve freedom whilst this cove has made every effort not to go there.