Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
28 November 2008
20:029946#1
It's not the first time and it won't be the last, after the events in India over the last 24hrs a simple question for you.
Should terrorists be subject to the Geneva convention or Human Rights?
I know my answer, what would yours be?
Ian...
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
28 November 2008
20:509949#2
Ian, from my mediocre knowledge of the Geneva Convention it would seem that terrorists are not subject to its protection. Terrorists as their very name implies, wage war on non-combatants and civilians in an endeavour to create fear and panic within the civilian population.
As far as Human Rights is concerned, those terrorists who are apprehended after the act has taken place and less face it very few survive, should be tried in the same way as any other criminal, to execute them without a trial would be a very dangerous precedent and in itself would only make martyrs of them.
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
28 November 2008
21:129950#3
Some very good points there Dave.
The word martyr does worry me though, it basicaly means you can't excecute me, my name will live forever and scares the hell out of all.
They would soon be forgotten.
Ian...
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
28 November 2008
21:179951#4
Not true - martyrs are never forgotten and are not worth taking on the mantle of murderer for. State murder does not work on any level - as a deterrent, as a punishment (name lives on, abdication of responsibility), reduces the state - and therefore us - to the same level as the murderer, except that we plan ahead and delude oursleves that it is righteous. Full legal rights are the only way, and if we can ensure that our legal system is just (not sure we could at the moment) we can be confident that anyone, even terrorists, will meet justice.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
28 November 2008
21:389953#5
Yes Bern, however bitter the pill may be to swallow, considering the atrocities these terrorists commit in the name of their cause, it is essential that when apprehended they are afforded proper justice through our legal system.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
28 November 2008
22:239954#6
They are criminals and should be dealt with as criminals through the full force of our legal system
Let us not afford them any other title than that, as to do so separated them from the common criminal and allows them to justify their actions as some sort of higher cause.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
28 November 2008
22:599956#7
i thought that the "geneva convention" applied only to soldiers in uniform.
i saw all those films when the brit stated his name rank and serial number, then the german chap retorted with,
"englischer schweinhund" and slapped the bloke with a leather glove.
executions just breed another generation of cold blooded murderers, leaving them to rot in jail is much more effective.
takes the "glamour" away from the potential martyr.
29 November 2008
10:159957#8
Absloutely! And you are spot on Ross when you suggest we use ordinary criminal titles - the phrase "suicide bomber" or "terrorist" are emotive and inaccurate: they are all murderers. Reduce the spotlight, reduce the impact.
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
29 November 2008
12:169962#9
I hear that the death toll is 195 confirmed and they are expecting it to rise, mass murderers should be terminated with the same disdain that they show for their victims.
To incarcerate them at immense cost to the taxpayer and when they in turn could be used as bargaining chips by future hostage takers would be a costly mistake.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
29 November 2008
13:229963#10
Death at the hands of the state is what these people crave, it legitimises their "cause" and confers upon them "martyr" status
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
29 November 2008
14:589964#11
Barry - I am appalled that it should come down to cost...apart from the fact that state murder is still murder - I appreciate we may differ on that - to legitimise murderers who use Cause as a means to murder is foolish and naive, and to use fiscal reasons to justify murder appears inappropriate to say the least.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
29 November 2008
15:409965#12
I've never heard such mamby pamby nonsense in my life.
These people are killers plain and simple and deserve the full force of the law. It's is not state murder that's just liberal, woolly-minded nonsense; it's valid punishment for their crime and the rubbish about bringing us down to their level is just tripe - pure an simple.
It does not legitimise their cause at all, it gives the just punishment and does not make a martyr out of them.
Innocent people who get killed and tortured for a twisted cause deserve to have their killers killed - even the Bible says an eye for an eye.
I agree with Barry.
Roger
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
29 November 2008
16:429966#13
Roger in their eyes and the eyes of their supporters and followers killing them does make them martyrs and further legitimises their cause/crime
Look at the behaviour of the Bali bombers - they craved the death penalty because they knew what effect it would have on their followers and sympathisers,
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
29 November 2008
18:309969#14
I am normally against capital punishment, but in the case of terrorist's using 'a just cause' to commit mass murder on an unprecedented scale deserves I feel the final penalty. I know that a terrorist is a freedom fighter in another's eyes, but a line has to be drawn somewhere.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
29 November 2008
21:149971#15
the whole point of punishment is to stop the same thing happening again.
the simplistic post from roger forgets to mention the troubles in northern ireland.
the moment a hunger striker dies a hundred volunteers were signed up.
this applies in every cause adopted by the lunatic fringe, if i may add to ross's post, the families of the victims of the bali bombers mainly condemned the executions for this very reason.
it must have been agony for them to call for clemency, they were at the sharp end but saw through the tabloidesque views of the pro death penalty people.
29 November 2008
21:229972#16
I'm with you Howard - the families were brave and clever, and we owe it to them and their dead loved ones to see the bigger picture, as they have, and see what we want to achieve. I am sure one thing we don't want to achieve is martyrdom for the murderers, and an allegedly valid cause for other vulnerable or blinkered people to sign up to.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
29 November 2008
21:539974#17
mmmm intresting views here,do you kill them or dont you its a matter of opion to which way you go and keep nanny out of it.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
29 November 2008
22:459978#18
do you really want to kill your nanny brian?
not very nice!!
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
30 November 2008
09:589987#19
Come off it Roger, 'a valid punishment'? Since when has sinking to the level of the perpetrator ever been a valid punishment, it is vengence killing, nothing more, nothing less. And of course killing them in the name of the state would make them martyrs. Consider replacing the crucifixtion and resurrection with fifteen to twenty with time off for good behaviour, doesn't have the same evangelical ring does it?
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
30 November 2008
10:209988#20
only the nanny state howard.