Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I disagree Howard - these things have to be put in the perspective of economic performance and sadly right now businesses are struggling to survive and a lot of these executives are earning their dosh by just keeping their companies in business.
Bern - I find that strange I really do. If people want to be better off then they need jobs. You seem to think that wealth is only for the rich - not so. Anyone can build more wealth for themselves from their income, many do - I would not be in a job if they did not, it depends on things like lifestyle. Someone who invests well £200pm into a decent Stocks & Shares ISA for instance, instead of smoking it away will gain a lot of real wealth over time. Therefore the rich and high earners (not always the same) by investing themselves, taking risks etc they do create wealth for others through the jobs they create. It is up to those in the jobs to turn the income they earn into greater levels of wealth as so many 'ordinary' people do.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
" Anyone can build more wealth for themselves from their income"........................
Only if they have a high enough income to spare to invest and just possibly loose, if I could only save £200 I would not risk it in stocks and shares.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
I find myself sort of agreeing with Barry, in so far as it is down to the share holders and non-exec directors to determine pay of the executive directors; it really is not for the state to interfere.
There is of course a moral and ethical dimension to all of this, but then again we are talking about capitalism so maybe there isnt...
The real problem as I see it is the whole concept of "limited liability" (1844 Joint Stock Company Act introduced it in the UK) which creates the ability for companies to fail the directors to walk away from the debt and start up again without an apparent care about the possible economic devastation they leave in their wake. Whilst the removal of this would of course have damped down economic activity it would also have avoided lots of trouble as directors and shareholders would have been much more careful.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
I have to say I also agree with Barry, truth be told. I just don't buy into the popular concept of capitalists being the saviour of the working people. It IS unequal, but then so is life: life is very unfair and we need to suck it up and just accept that and get on with it, which doesn't mean we shouldn't try to improve things. And I also agree with BarryW about making your own luck - I am such a believer in that. If something isn't working, change it! If your job is boring, make it more interesting, get an other, or start your own!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
ross
i don't think that anyone expects the state to intervene, i cannot see how they can anyway.
it is more about the general public expressing their outrage at what is going on and hoping that the message gets through.
agree with that bit about the limited liability issue, i got slaughtered years ago and in no time the miscreant was up and running and later doing the same to others.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
But Howard what is a 50% income tax if not state intervention, or any other form of penal tax on those who are wealthy
I equally do not necessarily think it should just be ditched without hard evidence that it will increase the tax take and/or increase economic activity
The answer is not to seek to penalise those who have it is to find ways to facilitate those who have not to become those who have - better education, training and apprenticeships, business start-up grants, low interest rate loans for SMEs, state guarantee schemes etc.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
personally i am not that bothered about the tax rate ross, more concerned about the huge wealth gaps that seem to grow and grow.
i have no idea what the answer is but someone has to find one otherwise we will have complete social breakdown.
i have been listening to and reading comments by top financial bods in this country and the rest of europe and they only differ on the length of suffering for average people.
10 years to 20 years.
a lot of resentment could fester in that time.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
I agree, but for 70 years the "state" has demonstrated time and again that it is the worst institution to create jobs etc.
It can of course legislate to try to minimise wealth gaps, it can tax to minimise them or perhaps it could truly and genuinely take the moral high ground and lead by example
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Jan - you do not have to be rich to invest or have lots of income. In my 22. nearly 23 years experience I have seen people with well below average income spend, save and invest wisely building up a lot of wealth and savings to make them a lot more comfortable later. I have seen others with double the income, do nothing with it and have nothing for their future. As I say it is all about the choices we make in lifestyle. The choice between M&S jeans and designer jeans maybe, or perhaps whether to smoke or not or whether or not to have Sky's full package and so on...
I am amused by what you say about stocks and shares, the biggest risk to savings right now are deposit accounts, inflation is currently reducing their value by more than the current stock market problems have reduced the value of the portfolios I am looking after, if you take even a short 2 year view. Anyway - equity (shares) investing should always be done with good fee based advice.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
I know you do not have to be rich but you have to be a gambler to invest in the way you describe. They go down as well as up as we all know but as it is your business you are bound to promote them.
I am quite comfortable the way I am, helping my grandson through uni as he is STILL WAITING
for his student grant to be sorted out but that is another story.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Jan - I am not promoting them, they are only one of the many tools I use, via collective investment schemes, to help achieve client's objectives. They are certainly not gambling either.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
paulb;
there are a number of differing contributions, all very interesting, whilst no one wants interference, even leading earners are warning we ar heading back to those victorian days of have/have nots
fairness a good word you use paulb
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
one for barry here,the higher tax tax rate should be 99p in the pound back dated to january the 1st 2010,failure to pay will involve 18 months inprisonment and a freeze on assets untill paymeant has been paid,then reduced to 45p in the pound from then on.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Brian - very silly, that suggestion.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
barry,not as silly as yours.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Well Brian if your aim is to destroy the UK economy then what you said might make sense.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
barry,its allready heading that way under the torys master plan a,when come up with a better plan i might start agreeing with you.