Martyn Webster- Registered: 18 Nov 2017
- Posts: 56
#1
Last Thursday a document,entitled Public Consultation,was unexpectedly delivered through letterboxes in Elms Vale (if not elsewhere in town) making an astonishing announcement concerning the future of Dover Grammar School for Boys
about a "drop-in exhibition" at the school's main gym on Tuesday 26th February,3.30pm-8pm.
This surely is not just a simple matter for "occupiers/local residents" and members of the "local community" (whatever that is supposed to mean) as the document addresses.
There would appear to have been no forewarning about this news imparted by a Martin Jones describing himself as Senior Design Manager for Kier Construction Southern.No clue is given as to exactly what are the "initial proposals".
"Kind regards",as it is signed off, are surely inappropriate for an iconic building that has prided its splendid,unequalled prominent position and reputation
(as was the original intention) since the year when it was first built in 1931 and that has been the alma mater for countless numbers of Dover's people who have gone on to future careers of achievement,success and excellence.
It was the creation of founding headmaster Fred Whitehouse along the lines of a public school in gothic architecture including a great hall with a magnificent organ which is unique today in any state school in the country.He must be spinning in his overgrown grave at Charlton cemetery.
This is now a very real matter for the town as a whole and cannot I submit be reduced to a one off "drop-in exhibition".
Alas the school is not,as it deserves,a listed building,despite all attempts to make it so.Do we really want to see it denigrated,even demolished?
I,as a third generation Old Pharosian myself, call for these initial proposals to be submitted to the fullest possible critical scrutiny and debate.
Martyn Webster
Guest 2547- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
#2
No such message was received thus far here in Maxton. How bizarre that it did not specify or even outline the actual proposals.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#3
From their website.
HT Weekly Blog
Week Ending 15th February 2019
Blog Entry #15
As we reach the end of another busy term, I hope you have all received my invitation to take part in the public consultation on our new school build, a project which is now moving into a crucial phase. If you are able to attend the consultation on Tuesday 26th February at any point between 3.30 p.m. and 8.00 p.m. it would be greatly appreciated. It will be an opportunity for you to tell us what you feel needs to be incorporated into our new buildings and what aspects of our school and its ethos need to be present in the new build to ensure our history is appropriately represented. I very much look forward to seeing you there (we will be in the gym) and to discussing our new school buildings with you. Of course, our Year 11 and Year 13 students are already in an incredibly important phase of their school lives with the approaching GCSE and A level examinations and I know they will want to take advantage of every opportunity both this half term and in the weeks ahead to revise and consolidate their knowledge and understanding. As American author Robert Collier once wrote, "Success is the sum of small efforts, repeated day in and day out."
Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,599
#4
As a (not very good) ex-pupil of DGSB I think it would a terrible shame to see the building knocked down.
I look forward to seeing what their plans are.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#5
I'm not reading it as knocking the building down but adding two or more smaller units. Surprised the local press haven't picked up on it and asked some questions.
Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,599
#6
Ah ok. There are a number of buildings behind the main building that might be replaced I suppose?
Judith Roberts- Registered: 15 May 2012
- Posts: 637
#7
The main building is a real Dover landmark. I would be surprised if it was demolished. I have happy memories of studying A level physics there.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#8
Definitely a landmark when coming down Waterworks Hill from the castle.
My son always thought it looked like and it felt like a prison but that could be because he hated his time there.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#9
#7, that hasn't stopped them before. a grade 2 building now a car park.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#10
Well hopefully people will attend
or those fears could become a reality
obviously the consultation is the usual
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Martyn Webster- Registered: 18 Nov 2017
- Posts: 56
#11
Is it not astonishing that the announcement of these proposals to "the local community" should be made by a construction company rather that the Department of Education and/or Kent County Council,or even the school itself? Have tenders been already put out and a contract agreed? If so,based on what plans? Is this a fait accompli?
All has been very much been carefully kept under wraps until now it seems.Perhaps because of an outcry it wanted to avoid.
The Head has just written the following in the latest newsletter of the Old Pharosians Association (old boys!) received only today:
"Talking of buildings.knowing this school as well as you do,you will appreciate that as wonderfully eclectic as our site is-and it is very hard not to fall in love with it-the needs and expectations of education,of curricula,students,parents and staff have moved on considerably since the early 1930s.The fact that our current buildings cannot support telephone lines which allow handsets with displays tells you much of what you need to know!Thus,we are at a point now where we need to look,as a matter of urgency,at alternative solutions to our needs.I have already spent a considerable amount of time with Department of Education representatives as we seek to firm up a potential plan to create a modern,purpose-built set of buildings for the boys of Dover,and am happy to report some very positive recent meetings in this regard.I fully intend to honour our school's history by transporting and integrating into the new buildings elements of the current site which have significant emotional and historical value-for example the stained glass window on the library staircase and the organ.I think this will provide reassurance to you as a commitment on my part to DGSB's history as well as to its future"
The last two sentences suggest to me at any rate that the present buildings are to be abandoned,if not actually demolished.If so and all this scheme comes to pass,what will then happen to them?
Can an organ be so easily moved?
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,109
#12
Well, presumably any scheme/potential plan will/would go through DDC for planning permission?
'...for the boys of Dover' struck me as a quaint phrase.
(Not my real name.)
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#13
It most absolutely needs to go through planning, as Priory Fields redevelopment did.
The consultation exercise is there to gauge public opinion and to get feedback on what are at the moment outline plans. It is your opportunity to ask the questions that are bothering you and hopefully get answers, perhaps even getting them to change some of the plan details. It is far too glib to write off the consultation as just a PR stunt or a foregone conclusion and does local people a disservice. If you care about DGSB its current and future pupils and the quality of the environment they will get taught in then attend the consultation and get your voice heard.
The formal planning process is a second opportunity to address issues and express your support or opposition to the plans; of course those objections need to be founded on relevant planning rules if you want the planning officers and committee to take them into account.
Button likes this
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
#14
Oh dear .My elder son and Grandson went to DGSB I
recall when the big consultation took place re DGSB and Castlemount .Castlemount closed and the pupils transferred to other schools .Some of us fought to keep DGSB as it held so much history .
I see the new Barton Road school new build .My youger son went there.The new build has not got the former Victorian features.A new box .The current ideas is glass boxes .
I had hoped the plan for DGSB was just a new extension to replace the old huts/ prefabs which are on site.So much of Dover history is being destroyed.
I was always pleased when River school extension was built it fitted in with the old Victorian building .New build which wraps its self around the old.
I hope DDC planning committee will have the vision.I suspect DDC are just consulteed as its KCC.I have no faith in their current ideas.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#15
None of us currently know what the plans are until the consultation on 26th Feb.
Of course any new buildings will be modern designs using modern methods and materials because recreating historic designs etc. is too damn expensive and precludes many modern amenities. Of course this does not mean it shouldn't or couldn't be sympathetic to and complement the structures that are to remain
Jan Higgins, Paul M and Chris like this
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,599
#16
Perhaps the school will end up in the Whitfield area like most of the rest of the town?
Brian Dixon, howard mcsweeney1 and Weird Granny Slater like this
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,109
#17
That would make it WGS...
(Not my real name.)
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,095
#18
Heavens no! Astor (Secondary, that is, not College) and proud.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,599
#19
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/news/too-old-school-199701/
Dover Grammar School for Boys could be demolished and replaced with a new building.
The plan is to put up the new one first, which would be on land in front of the existing structures, and knock down the school's 1930s ones.
This is favoured over the alternative of refurbishing and extending the existing buildings. Martyn Webster- Registered: 18 Nov 2017
- Posts: 56
#20
My initial comments are :
1.What difference,if any,would a listing have made to these proposals?In other words would it have been a help to retain the school buildings or a hindrance?
2.What tendering process,if indeed there was one at all,was or was not involved for Kier Construction to be the firm involved in the proposals?If none,why not?
3.Presumably the plans will be subject to local planning permission,so at this stage the proposals are not a total foregone conclusion.
I think the best that should be done is to at least put up a case for the retention of such iconic buildings in some shape or form if not as a school.It would be interesting to know the exact structural reasons why the buildings have been deemed unfit.
Once the planning permission process is set up these are the questions that I,for one, should like to see answered.