5 November 2010
18:2878670#1
So the HS1 route which cost over £5bn to build has been flogged to the Canadians for £2.1bn.
I really do not understand the economics behind this but on the plus side hopefully the new operators are used to dealing with the odd flurry of snow?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11701481howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 November 2010
18:3278672#2
apparently the line is badly under used and would welcome a new train operating company.
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
5 November 2010
18:4078677#3
Well being Canadians they should be used to coping with snow!
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
5 November 2010
18:4278679#4
very underused
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Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
5 November 2010
18:4578680#5
Will be even more underused when the HS1 are highjacked to provide a shuttle service from central London to the Olympic site, back to the rattlers for all the teams training in Kent.
5 November 2010
18:5678684#6
Don't know about under used but I find 38 min Ashford - St Pancras stunning.
It really makes you feel like you are living in a fairly advanced society (until you attempt to continue your journey either end).
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 November 2010
19:0678687#7
there lies the problem bob, if they brought back the slow trains the line would not be so under used.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
5 November 2010
19:0878688#8
yep travelled on it many times
very under used
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Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
5 November 2010
20:1478708#9
Please distinguish between the use of the line by train operating companies and the use of SouthEasterns High Speed service.
The line is moderately used by both Eurostar and SouthEastern, however until recently access was restircted to just these 2 companies. Earlier this year the government indicated their desire to open up access slots to other operators which lead to both Deutsche Bahn and SNCF expressing an interest in running additional services. The most likely is DB, whose newest ICE trains are identical to the new fleet recently commissioned by Eurostar. In fact both companies have carried out test runs through the tunnel and up to St Pancras.
As for the SouthEastern HS1 service, certainly peak hour services are showing significant increases in passenger numbers with most peak trains now being 80% full at least as far as Ashford and a sizeable number of people using it beyond Ashford on both routes. It is worth noting that the peak services on the North Kent line are used only fractionally less than our line, despite all the passenger bitching earlier this year.
Off peak services are a different matter, with many people being put off by the price difference between the mainline and High Speed services. It would of course be even better if the track between Dover and Ashford could be upgraded to allow all trains to run faster as this would trim running time for all services; sadly this is unlikely due to the cost of upgrading the track and particularly the points.
I use this service every day to and from work and find it worth the additional expense, the onward journey from Stratford or St Pancras is straight froward enough wither via the multiple tube links, or the overground services or if you have a sense of adventure via bus or Boris bike.
Howard the Mainline trains cannot use HS1 as there is no third rail for them to draw traction power from.
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Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
5 November 2010
23:3978728#10
I`ve been up to London all day today, and the pleasant part now about the journey is being able to come home on that high speed link. The sad part though is still the length of time taken on the stretch after the Ashford stop. Incidentally, the Canadian`s took over EWS, the railfreight company from the American`s, but didn`t have it for long, after which the German`s got it, and it`s now DB Schenka. So were the Canadian`s after the tunnel when they got hold of EWS?
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Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
6 November 2010
04:4778736#11
This seems quite a good deal compared to what might have been. HS1 was expected to be sold outright for about a quarter of what it cost to build. Instead, it has been leased for thirty years for more than that to Canadian pension funds, a consortium of Borealis Infrastructure and Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan, with ownership retained by the British government. The Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan owns the national lottery Camelot as well as Bristol and Birmingham airports - they must have very rich teachers in Canada.
Makes a nice change from just flogging off all our national infrastructure for peanuts as we have been doing for the last thirty years. Suppose it is wishful thinking that something similar might be negotiated for the poor old Port of Dover.
HS1 (CTRL as was) has been underused from the outset. Initially there were just one or two Eurostars an hour in each direction. This was not a very good return on a £5bn+ dedicated high speed railway so the government spent nearly a billion pounds buying Japanese trains to run domestic high speed services on the line, equipped for dual voltage so that they could come off onto the classic lines, and slated to provide a St.Pancras-Stratford shuttle for the Olympics.
EU liberalisation is expected to see DB and possibly SNCF trains providing services to alternative European destinations in the future so HS1 may finally realise its full potential.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
6 November 2010
10:3878752#12
I agree with Ed leasing it for 30 years for £2.1bn seems a pretty reasonable deal.
As I said in my previous post the major constraint on reducing journey times between Dover & Ashford is that the line needs upgrading, none of the points between these two stations is rated above 60 mph and the section between Dover and Folkestone has the tightest radius curve on the UK rail network (By the old Town & Habour stations). The other issue is the number of stops between here and Ashford, cutting out one of the Folkestone stops would reduce the journey time by approx 4 minutes.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi