Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,163
Just to be absolutely clear here. There is no EU ban on Brits using eGates. It is a complete fiction.
Multiple EU countries and their airports allow Brits to use their eGates.
Etc. Etc.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,163
We have let EU passport holders (and many other nationalities) through e gates throughout the Brexit period, and since.
Whereas they disbarred us from theirs because we are now”third country nationals” and as things stand intend to fingerprint photograph and question all U.K. visitors under their new entry / exit system which is now slated to come in later this year. All at the border, causing longer queues than we see there already.
Meanwhile @ukhomeoffice has allowed EU passport holders to register on line before travel by mobile app without any requirement for fingerprints or delays on arrival.
Why so, I wonder? The risks are the same - in fact arguably greater for the U.K. than the EU. Similarly, the Customs checks introduced post Brexit at EU ports have been significantly more onerous than those imposed by the U.K. on EU imports.
Looks a lot like Brexit punishment to me rather than a reasonable borders reset based on risk.
Look forward to seeing what this new deal means for travellers and businesses in reality - the devil will be in the detail.
The big sticking point is the fingerprint requirement. Under the current EU regulation all U.K. passport holders will have to give their fingerprints at first arrival in the EU, under the supervision of an EU border guard. This is because (unlike photos) you can’t bind the holder to the document like you can with photos (because there aren’t any fingerprints in the passport chip to match against).
The U.K. has avoided this by taking a calculated risk that we won’t require fingerprints from EU visitors at all - either at the border or inland.
The capture of fingerprints at EU entry points will be extremely onerous, especially for British families boarding trains and ferries to France. Everyone will have to exit their vehicle and scan passport face and finger and answer questions on kiosks before boarding. Then they still need to present to an officer.
At airports the e gates or kiosks will still be supervised by officers with the same requirements - and will take longer than current manual examinations and stamping under the existing system.
Once registered, return visits might be easier as face could then act as the identifier on each trip and we could develop mobile apps to do it away from the border (unsupervised).
** The best result will be for the EU to ditch the fingerprinting requirement on U.K. passport holders altogether. If this deal allows that, then hats off to HMG.
But just a deal to use e gates without reducing enrolment requirements will not make things any easier (in fact most likely worse) in terms of queues at EU ports of entry.
Tony Smith CBE
(** They haven't. Capt Haddock)
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,163
“The EU Commission and the UK will explore ways to reinforce exchanges of data on fingerprints, DNA, and criminal records of third country nationals. They will also explore extending the exchange of data to facial images for the prevention, detection and investigation of criminal offences.” Good. Asap please.
Tony Smith CBE
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,087
A successful democracy is when everyone's a suspect?
That people should beg the state to securitise them makes me wonder whether there's any level of humiliation a population wouldn't willingly tolerate.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
Does this mean the flood gates will gradually reopen but only for the young?
So much for opinion of the Brexit voter many of them being Labour supporters....or they were.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,163
Jan Higgins wrote:Does this mean the flood gates will gradually reopen but only for the young?
The Devil, as ever, is in the detail. The Government has talked of a limit but given no number. Will it be a case of first come - first served each year until the quota runs out? Will it be for specific employment arranged before the visa is applied for? Can we expect hoards of Swedish au-pairs (A GOOD thing !) or a deluge of Roma Big Issue sellers (not so good).
As with our wonderful trade agreements with India and the USA nobody seems to have worked out any details.
The Sun is not happy anyway!!!
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35030114/keirs-eu-deal-will-open-door-to-millions-more/"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,163
Re this e gates stuff. I know I’ve been banging on about it a lot - but important people know the facts:
1. Some EU airports already allow U.K. passport holders to use e gates. So it’s not “new”.
2. Since Brexit, U.K. passport holders have been reclassified as “third country nationals”. Which means you can’t use the EU passport lanes anymore (although many EU airports will still let you depending upon queues).
3. Many EU airports don’t have e gates at all - even for EU passport holders.
4. As third country nationals, all U.K. passport holders must have a record of entry or exit at the EU border. This might be an electronic record, or a physical passport stamp. (Not needed for EU passport holders). Also, many EU countries will now photograph you on arrival. Some on exit, too.
5. The EU has been promising for a long time to bring in a biometric entry exit system (EES) for third country nationals (including Brits). Latest implementation date is October this year.
6. Under EES, all 3CNs (including Brits) will have to register their biometrics (fingerprints and face) and scan their passports on arrival in the EU. They may also be questioned under the Schengen Borders Code (SBC) about duration of stay, purpose of visit, address in EU. This can be done at a kiosk (not an e gate) on arrival, before passport control. For a family of 4 this process could take up to ten minutes transaction time.
7. Much of this process could be moved on line (or via a mobile app) - but the EU are refusing to allow this because the regulations as currently drafted say it must be done in person on arrival at the port of entry and in front of an officer.
8. This is in stark contrast to UK e gates, where there is no requirement to capture fingerprints or answer questions for EU passport holders. In effect they are cleared for entry into the U.K. in the same way as U.K. passport holders - and wait in the same line.
9. The EU may consider easements for second and subsequent arrivals via e gates for those enrolled in EES for a limited duration. But not for first time arrivals.
10. I have seen nothing in the EU reset agreement that mentions EES or the additional burden this will place on British holidaymakers when it comes into force. Saying that they will be able to enter via e gates is at best naive; and at worst a deliberate attempt to persuade British tourists that there has been some big breakthrough on facilitating their entry into the EU going forward. There hasn’t. And without some concessions on EES queues will get a lot worse before they get better, I’m afraid.
ENDS
3:59 PM · May 20, 2025
Tony Smith CBE
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,163
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,065
Captain Haddock wrote:
6. Under EES, all 3CNs (including Brits) will have to register their biometrics (fingerprints and face) and scan their passports on arrival in the EU. They may also be questioned under the Schengen Borders Code (SBC) about duration of stay, purpose of visit, address in EU. This can be done at a kiosk (not an e gate) on arrival, before passport control. For a family of 4 this process could take up to ten minutes transaction time.
In the case of Dover Straits ferry/shuttle/train crossings, biometric recording will be located at Dover, Cheriton and St Pancras.
The process is likely to take longer than the simple transaction time, particularly in the case of the first two locations, due to having to park the vehicle and walk to and back from the kiosk, and potentially having to wait for a kiosk to become free at busy periods or with coach traffic.
(Not my real name.)
TheThinWhiteDuke- Registered: 7 Jul 2016
- Posts: 359
Weird Granny Slater wrote:A successful democracy is when everyone's a suspect?
That people should beg the state to securitise them makes me wonder whether there's any level of humiliation a population wouldn't willingly tolerate.
Most of the EU have some form of ID card. Some take fingerprints for theirs along with the photograph. Interesting article here:
https://www.biometricupdate.com/202403/fingerprint-biometrics-on-id-cards-legally-invalid-but-eu-top-court-declines-change
Why just not go the whole hog and start microchipping everybody at birth?
I'm predicting chaos at the port. Hope I'm wrong.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,065
TheThinWhiteDuke wrote:Why just not go the whole hog and start microchipping everybody at birth?
I'm predicting chaos at the port. Hope I'm wrong.
Indeed! I understand that your National Insurance number is assigned (but not applied) at birth. As for the port, it's not so much the individual transaction time that's the worry, but the capacity to get multiple travellers through the process simultaneously - queuing theory. Plus, in Dover, how to get vehicles to and from the sea side of the A20, especially without fouling inland-bound traffic.
(Not my real name.)
victor matcham- Registered: 5 Oct 2021
- Posts: 1,083
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,087
TheThinWhiteDuke wrote:Why just not go the whole hog and start microchipping everybody at birth?
You jest, TWD?
Salami-slicing is a sly art form, sadly under-appreciated.
When it achieves an exhibition at the Tate Modern, I suspect many will join the long, demeaning queues and pay the extortionate price of entry to see it.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Wonder if this system will work as they are predicting??
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,163
Keef. Think the answer is 'NO'.
The rollout of e-gate access to British arrivals at Faro Airport in Portugal began as early as Tuesday and appeared to cut waiting times for passengers.
Travel expert Simon Calder joins Mike Graham to discuss potential travel chaos over the summer holidays and while Faro airport might have speeded things up, there will still be issues for some travellers.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,065
TheThinWhiteDuke wrote:Why just not go the whole hog and start microchipping everybody at birth?
You'll no doubt be pleased to hear that the Government has listened to you! According to today's Telegraph front page, that nice Mr Streeting will make sure that within the next 10 years all newborns will undergo whole genome sequencing and have their DNA mapped. Come to think of it, this will allow future ne'er-do-wells of the WGS kind to be identified for re-education.
(Not my real name.)
