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    David.
    I brought disabled into it because they are part of the equation.

    You say "My whole point is that when the welfare state was introduced it bore no resemblance to what it is today"

    I disagree.

    Kath #1 "At one or two houses they found some individuals dissipating in tippling"

    you #5 "The Eight Bells is full of people drinking and smoking whilst living in poverty"

    My point is, that I doubt if there was any more in the 8 bells today, than there was in Kath's Inns almost 200 years ago, abusing the system.

    That does not mean they are right to do these deadly deeds or that I agree with it, because I don't.

    But compare it to what is happening to the other 99%, then a few p--heads squandering their benefits is not high on my list of social misdemeanours, that are happening today and being ignored by some on this forum.

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