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You could say all those things Andy, but then you would be denying the historical facts. Keeping our noses out Europe led to two world wars, the Franco-Prussian War, the Russo-Turk war, the annexation of Bosnia-Herzogovina, the botched independence of Greece, the annexation of Egypt, the Crimean War.
All the above happened as a direct result of Britain taking the, "we're not European" attitude in its foreign policy. Castlereagh, Salisbury and Churchill all advocated direct input from Britain to prevent such things happening. Derby, Canning, Thatcher, Chamberlain and Lloyd George advocated keeping our head down.
Europe without British involvement will always dissolve into pettty squabbles and open warfare, recent Balkans episode for example, and then our politicians send our troops in to try and sort it out. That's the wrong approach.
We need to be at the centre, along with France and Germany. Only through direct involvement, difficult as John rightly alludes, will we ever stand a chance of changing the EU for the better. Until we take that approach the EU will forever be a predominantly German/French club making decisions that are best for them.
