Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#1
In a bizarre political move, top Tory doner Stuart Wheeler who has been a staunch Conservative for as long as anyone can remember and given them millions and millions over the years, including at one time a payment of £5million in one go, has been chucked out of the party. The reason is that he bizarrely gave a rather huge donation to UKIP. UKIP are a party, small in stature, who have some policies (for want of a better word) in place that many Tories aspire to. In other words many tories would like to see themselevs be more like UKIP in so many ways...ie..no ties with Europe whatsoever.
UKIP, leader Nigel Farage, who enjoys the resplendant nature of life amonst the MEPs, still rubbishes at every opportunity its very reason for existence, is rubbing his hands with glee at this sudden unexpected donation. I cant myself understand the Farage/EU logic. If an individual hates the EU it seems odd to take part. Its akin to hating the Taleban but joining them.
David Cameron said over the weekend " goodbye to Wheeler and his millions" as he chucked him out, clearly disgusted at the disloyalty. Wheeler isnt bothered.
The Conservatives continue to support Europe but of course some within the Conservative fold want to see us pull out altogether. Our own BarryW has stated this often enough. So BarryW are you more a UKIP chap at heart??
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#2
No, paulB, I am not, I am a Tory. I agree with getting out of the EU but I am not a single issue type. Stuart Wheeler is one of those who are over obsessed with the EU and that is not healthy. It was right that he be expelled for his backing of UKIP.
The name of the game is getting into and sustaining responsible Government. Being overly bsessed about one single issue is not the way to do that. The Conservative Party is healthily sceptical, the move to quit the EPP is a good and overdue one and the policy of no to the Euro on principal is also right long with the opposition to the Constitution now dressed down as a Treaty but remaions what it is...
Eventually I am convinced we will get out of the EU or at least negotiate a more suitable arms length relationship. UKIP are no more than a distraction to this.
#3
I am not sure what it will have acheived to boot him out of the party, though. If the party is not a single issue party can they not sustain disagreement or difference within the ranks? Or does one have to totalitarian-ly sign up to agree with everything to remain a member? Is it not possible to recognise a pointed and obvious gesture of defiance and still retain him as a member?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#4
No problem about sustaining disagreement and debate Bern. The issue here is one of a member making a large donation to a Party against whom we will be fighting an election in just a couple of months. you have to draw a line somewhere and if DC did not expel him then he would be open to accusations of weakness and/or being in the pocket of a large contributor. He did the right thing.
#5
Perhaps Barry, but I am still not sure. Perhaps it's a "damned if you do and if you don't" jobbie! Appearance of weakness and corruption on the one hand and appearance of inability to take debate on the other - perhaps he just can't win!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#6
If it was just a matter of debate then I would agree with you, Bern, but it isnt, its one of hard cash bankrolling a political opponent.
A good example of our accomodating a 'broad church' on this issue is Dan Hannan. Dan quit the EPP in disgust a fair old while ago, well ahead of the Party quitting, but has remained a Conservative and is top of the South East list. There is a strong 'better off out' movement within the Conservative Party that is very much in line with the Wheeler view of the EU, indeed I am one of this 'wing' myself.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#7
sounds like a case of rats leaving a sinking ship syndrome to me.i would like to know how we are going to get out of something that we are not a full member of.
#8
There's no doubt in my mind that we "would be better off out"! But I am not a member of the Tory party. I absolutely see what you are saying, Barry, but am still not sure it was right - but having said that I really do feel it's a rock and a hard place position for DC. You are right, no card-carrying member of anything should chuck folding stuff at the opposition, but it was not a huge sum in the scheme of things and was probably more of a visible protest, so the booting out could in some lights appear an over-reaction (not necessarily my view as I am still parked on the fence). But at least it is decisive! It is often better to be decisively wrong than ditheringly right!!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#9
True Bern
Brian, sinking, come off it.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#10
come of what,he must know something you dont.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#11
Such as Brian?
Look at all the evidence, polls being the most obvious.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#12
what have the poles got to do with it.they are never right or never wrong.just stats which are useless.facts are needed from the proper set of books.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#13
we seem to be missing the original point, this cove wheeler was a member of the conservative party, and gave a large sum of money openly to a rival party.
not a question of debate or disagreement.
should one join a club, one abides by the rules or faces expulsion.
this bloke does sound a bit like a rich version of our victor.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#14
howard,its a case of sour grapes on the torys part.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#15
I have to say i agree with BARRYW
this chappie has gone to another party who will be fighting thre tories in these elections coming up, so this time i think DC has made the right decision!!!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#16
There was no decision to make ,Keith.How can you have a man in your party who donates £100k to an opposition party that wants to opt out of European.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#17
whilst on the subject of donors, i seem to remember a bloke up in yorkshire, called sykes, think he was a textile magnate changing his donation to the ukip for the same reason.
i am sure that someone will google the full story.